The discussion about gay marriage deserves more than the one-liner and bumper sticker jabs that both sides lob into the debate. Having been raised by my mother who is in a same-sex relationship, this is my attempt to present my thoughts unapologetically but with sensitivity and fairness. Thanks for reading.
173 thoughts on “About”
I want to congratulate you for your bravery, for your patience to present discussions, for your vibrant love. You risk being called a hater. And your gravatar title plays with this, maybe at risk of losing an audience. I thank you for the labor you are doing. I will refer as many people to this post as possible. Also, I teach at a small Christian school in Santa Monica, CA. Do you know any Christian who once was in the gay lifestyle who could talk to the kids. The topic of gay marriage is big here, and the kids actually lean toward accepting it, but as you say, they have simply accepted the slogans and not really studied the issue in depth.
Thank you for your kind words. The balance of love and truth, as well and not reducing this topic to a simplistic one, is often missing in in the discussion of gay marriage and homosexuality. I appreciate the diversity of commenters on the posts as it allows us all the de-stigmatize one another.
I have two friends that I would like to interview on my blog at some point- one godly woman who experiences same-sex attraction and one gay man who has chosen celebacy and a life of service to others. Perhaps I can ask them if they would be willing to share their stories with us. But I would also encourage you to check out Exodus International. They are an exceptional organization, filled with love for all and love for Christ. They have many resources for churches and parachurch ministries.
If there are any specific questions that you or your students have, please let me know! I would love to address them.
Thanks again for the encouragement!
Thank you. Animo! (as they say in Spanish!)
I love the book Same Sex Attraction- from an Orthodox perspective and highly recommend it to anyone and everyone. I also love that the OC really does have a place for those struggling with it…and they can achieve celibacy and live a Christian calling through monastic life and still serve God.
Is there a way to message you privately? Like an email or Facebook page for this blog? Thanks.
Thanks for asking. I just sent you an email.
Could I also have your e-mail maybe…? I would like to develop more of a relationship with you, if you have the time. You are clearly a very busy woman. 🙂
Emailed you. 🙂
I just stumbled on you blog, and I wanted to let you know how much I appreciate the things you have to say. It’s a huge breath of fresh air to hear some truth being spoken with such compassion. There seems to be so much vehemence from both sides, and it’s wonderful to hear a Christian trying to change this.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. That is exactly the goal of this blog- to not shy away from love or truth on this multi-faceted issue. I appreciate you stopping by!
Brilliant blog with a heart, passion and love even for those who you disagree with. You are the model of what a Christian ought to be, mostly we we walk in a brave new world where the only wrong thing to say is that someone else is wrong. Keep up the good work.
Wow. Thank you so much for your comments and for following. I do hope that those with whom I agree, and those who don’t, feel that this is a safe place to share their thoughts. And we can do that without compromising our convictions. Blessing to you, friend.
I just stumbled upon your blog from reading comments on an article linked from “The Poached Egg.” You set a great example for how a Christian should stand unapologetically on their convictions while making thier arguments respectfully. I loved, and learned from how you dealt skillfully with the commenter who made the implication that your “bias” may be influencing your ability to see the issue fairly. I will be adding your blog to my favorites!
Thank you, Garry. If you ever feel so prompted, please join in on a conversation thread! I have the greatest readers around and this page offers many opportunities to apply a wide spectrum of Christ’s admonitions- from standing for truth to blessing those who may throw stones. Thanks for reading and taking the time to comment.
Coming from a missionary family and being a missionary myself, I’ve not been through the trauma you have, but I deal with many who are trapped by assorted lies of the devil, and he certainly assaults sexuality and the family from every angle he can. Thank You for being an honest and clear voice on the side of truth.
Thanks for the comment, friend. There was plenty of transition in my childhood, that’s for sure. But I love my parents, and their partners/spouses, and God has truly worked all things together for my good. Stop by anytime!
Whew, penetrating and compelling! Some much needed respectful boldness in an age of self-gratification and confusion. May Christ be exalted through your efforts!
Wow. Thank you so much. Indeed, may He increase and I decrease.
God bless this blog! Just discovered it via Wintery Knight. I love the idea of embracing the ad hominem term, to get the name-calling out of the way. Half the work is done if you can get someone to click through simply because of your name, which is concise and informative. Congrats.
Oh thank you!! This blog was born on an angry day (“Lord what do you want me to DO?!?) the week after Obama’s evolution and it seemed that finally mainstream media was free to play the ‘biogt card.’ I think I heard it nearly 10 times that week as NPR, cable sources, and print media “reported” on the growing debate in America. So, while neither writing, debating, or polemics is my strength, this is what I find myself doing in much of my free time. Thankfully, loving people of all brands comes easy to me. And that has come in mighty handy. 😉
Thank you again for taking the time to read and comment!
I like your writing style, going to have to stop back very soon 🙂
Katy, it doesn’t matter if you are a bigot. You’re entitled to your opinions.
Having said that, my objection is that religious zealots like you try to force your beliefs on the rest of us who don’t believe like you do. We all don’t believe in magical super beings. Show some respect for other people’s beliefs. It not always about what your bible says.
You may have a deep love for gays, but you need to mind your own business when it comes to what gays do. It’s not your business if they marry. A gay marriage doesn’t personally affect you in any way. And, by the way, you religious people do come across as obsessed with gay sex. It’s the main thing you all seem to focus on. Seriously, it’s very peculiar.
Stop playing the victim. You got negative attention because you are putting yourself out there saying that true christians, such as yourself, think gayness is unnatural. Or did I get that wrong? You, as a heterosexual white woman living in America, are certainly no victim.
Gays are victims. They are denied the same basic human rights others have, like the right to marry, the right to adopt, the right to hold certain jobs. They are victims of discrimination, constant bullying, the brunt of jokes, and oftentimes violence that leads to death. The penalty for being gay in a lot of countries is death.
I want you to give me just one example of this in action: “True Christianity will also be the first to sacrifice and serve their gay neighbors and family members.”
Welcome to asktheBigot. Many apologies for overlooking your comment for so long. Somehow this fell off my radar. I strive to respond, even briefly, to those who disagree but who take the time to read and comment. And I’m sorry that didn’t happen in your case until now. Here’s hoping you agree with “better late than never.”
If you’ve had a chance to look over some of the post here, especially the page Gay Marriage (https://askthebigot.com/gay-marriage/) at the top, you will see that whether or not I am a “religious zealot” as you claim, I do not make religious arguments when it comes to public policy. Reason and natural law are more than enough to argue the valid points of this debate.
Regarding the “obsessed with gay sex” shtick, that’s fun to say but really doesn’t hold water. I wrote a post addressing that here: https://askthebigot.com/2014/03/14/why-are-christians-obsessed-with-homosexuality/
In terms of giving you an example of being “the first to sacrifice and serve their gay neighbors and family members” this post may be helpful: https://askthebigot.com/2012/09/03/why-do-you-hate-gays/
Again, thanks for your comments and so sorry it took me almost half a year (eeek!) to respond.
I read your article on the christian obsession with gay sex. It doesn’t change what I’ve witnessed. Put it this way: you aren’t going to find atheists concerning themselves with gays or spending money to fight gay marriage.
I recognize that you are trying to reconcile your distaste for homosexuality with the teachings of Jesus to “love your fellow man” so you are at least trying to not be a bigot. You are trying to have an open dialogue, as witnessed by this discussion.
Like I said before, you are entitled to your opinions, just don’t try to force them on others through legislation. We don’t all believe like you do. (Anyone who worships invisible supernatural beings is a zealot in my opinion.)
“Just don’t try to force them on others through legislation.”
Does this mean you don’t support legislation re-defining marriage?
I shouldn’t have to support legislation redefining marriage. Legislation forbidding gays to marry stomps on their right to have equality with heterosexuals. Marriage should be defined as the union of two consenting adults who are not genetically closely related to each other. (“Closely” to be defined.)
This country is supposed to be about freedom, equality and the pursuit of happiness for EVERYONE, not just a select handful who have it for themselves, while depriving others of their rights.
Hey, if you don’t want to marry someone of the opposite sex, don’t, but it isn’t your right to stop someone else from doing so.
I find your response interesting because you didn’t actually answer my question.
You imply that you do, which would render the previous statement on legislation self-defeating. But without a hard answer, I’ll stop here.
Carolina is an old friend of mine 😉
OLD and dear friend. LOL
Although neither one of us is old- obviously!
Well, I’m hanging on to my fifteen minutes of pretty with both hands.
“A gay marriage doesn’t personally affect you in any way.”
Wow! Rather ironic – and insulting – to say that to someone whose mother is in a same-sex relationship. Of course it personally affects her – and in a very significant way.
To Katy – Just found your blog today. Thank you for having the courage and charity to speak out. God bless you.
No, the gay marriages of others does not personally affect Katy, or any of you. You all need to mind your own business and let other people make their own choices. Stop trying to be Marriage Nazis.
I went to college to study art. I came from another country only to have it shoved in my face was a total shock (along with culture shock). When I resisted I was frozen out and called names because I said I disagreed. OF COURSE it affects other people! I endured psychological abuse as a teen because of it because my natural instinct was to be repelled by something that just feels unnatural. And people just kept shoving my nose in it and I just wanted to be left alone and study my major. It isn’t my business what people do but I have a serious problem when me and the ones I love get mind raped and sucked into this mad vortex along with LGBT movement. I’m over the initial repulsion because I now have more understanding from people who tell me their struggles. But it’s not the fact people have gay feelings it’s how they handle it. They cannot convert me to thinking it’s right and good just as how I would never force someone to convert to my faith because that is abusive. They are asking me, in fact to desecrate the image of my God. His image is male and female, anything else is the pride of man and confusion. That is a point a believer cannot compromise. I will not violate myself in that manner.
It is YOUR OPINION there even is a god. Not all of us share a belief in god. But let’s get real, you don’t like homosexuals and you use your religious beliefs to back you up so you can feel okay about that. You don’t have to feel unChristian or unMuslim, or whatever you are, in disliking them.
I’m not gay, but I don’t worry about gay marriage, gay sex, etc. You should do the same. This can’t be said enough to you religious fanatics: Mind your own business.
As to homosexuality being shoved in your face, welcome to my world with you religious people always shoving bibles, crosses and religion in my face. Ain’t karma grand?
Interesting.What if someone’s religion doesn’t accept ethnic people like you? Does that mean marginalizing is okay because not marginalizing you would be for certain people to ‘violate themselves’ and their beliefs?
You are mistaken. It seems not much thought has gone into your response. Consider this, same sex sex does not reproduce yet they expect to be parents. There are very few children available for adoption in this country and everyone of them has a basic human right to a mother a father.
These self centered narcissists and their allies think they have a “right” to other peoples children. As someone who was raised in a same sex home I can tell you–they should have no rights to children–period. But people are profoundly stupid and they are the hip cause and it is oh so fashionable. They are the most misogynistic group to have hit the planet since the Gladiators. They take other peoples children or their eggs or their bodies/wombs. That is the “same sex family.” It needs 3 people outside the couple. Has that occurred to you? Do you know of any other group in all of human history that demanded 3 other people give them bodies and parts?
They expect society to provide them with impoverished women as breed animals. And you think that’s good and you consider yourself progressive. Bottom line–Same sex marriage is predatory and parasitic sucking the life out of poor women and kids–and these women and kids are mostly minorities. Given that support of same sex marriage is not looking all that progressive to me. But I am against slavery and human trafficking.
It is not “just between two people or not hurting anyone else” they decided to demand children and are trying to create a breeder class of women to service them with live humans for sale.Those of that pay attention to their 100’s of court cases know. Same sex marriage is a tool that will strip women and children of basic human rights in ways that have not been known since slavery and the Holocaust. Do you still want to play that as progressive?
“…very few children available for adoption…” You don’t know what you’re talking about. We have 400,000 in foster care here. 350,000 need to be adopted. Explain how it’s better to let these kids languish in foster care than go into loving homes with gay parents. Better yet, why don’t you ask them which they would prefer.
And so what if gays want to be parents? Parenting is the most basic human need and right. You don’t have to be ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN couple to parent effectively, as shown by our huge population of single mothers. As someone who was raised in a ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN hetero-married couple, I can say with certainty that heterosexuality doesn’t automatically ensure good parenting skills.
Same sex marriage has nothing to do with poor women, kids and minorities. What a bizarre thing to say. You make these wild, inflammatory statements without evidence to back them up, like that same sex marriage is predatory. There aren’t buildings full of “breeders” having children to hand over to gays. How exactly are you able to “pay attention” to hundreds of cases? What court cases are you talking about? Certainly not family court, since those are privacy sealed.
If anyone is doing human trafficking, it’s heteros. It isn’t gays frequenting all the brothels filled with young girls forced into prostitution, no, that would be heterosexual men.
You need counseling. Something is seriously wrong with your thought processes.
Interesting. So if we take your statement seriously that means you have nothing against gay unions as long as children aren’t involved?
Foster care does not mean we can snap ’em up and give them to really nice white people with manicured lawns and money–like a Cheerio commercial. Children in foster care have parents and those parents want their children. As a general practice we can’t prey on the poor and poach their children–that’s a big no no. It is unethical and morally corrupt and born out of elitism and racism.
There are less than 150,000 children available for adoption in the US and that’s a good thing. Children should be with their biological parents or nearest relative. Sorry, parenthood is not a right it is a biological result of a man and women having sex. Most certainly it is not a right that society has give people other peoples children. No one has the right to other peoples children–or to their bodies or body parts–those are not rights in America.
By loving you mean they want. Well wanting does not make what you want a “right”–keep this in mind, those are not their children–as for love, it is not some magic that justifies grotesque exploitation–Stalkers love their victim, does that mean the victim must comply–because it is loving? Many abuser love their victim too. Children have human rights and no adult has the right to other peoples children.
Gay parenting can only happen by exploiting and damaging up to 3 other people. Count them One (given dangerous super ovulation drugs, eggs surgically harvested), Two (womb and entire body used as reproductive slave) Three (infant that is taken from mother–we do not do that to animals) . Almost always these are poor women–3rd world of color.
As I said, it is a predatory male rights movement that seeks to damage, exploit and harm poor women by using them as breed animals and turn humans into commodities. This is not their “right”
You might want to look up Surrogacy in India or Thailand–“Mother Jones”, “The Guardian”, “Times of India” and “The Atlantic Monthly” have all covered it. Feminist in the 3rd world and other activist are fighting it. Loving? Women being held in compounds–behind barbed wire, against their will and forcibly impregnated–and having 10 births each infant sold to “a loving couple” sounds like love right?
Sorry if does not fit with all your imagining but the gay family is mostly a grim harvest. It is exploitation and death and human trafficking. I suggest you educate yourself about for profit human breeding.
So Yeah it has everything do with exploiting women and minority and buying children–a billion dollar business. “Love Makes A Family” maybe but not the gay family–that the family macabre. No such thing as the same sex family it is a lie created out of other peoples suffering and loss. They at lest deserve honesty.
I’m sorry missed your question. You asked: ” Interesting. So if we take your statement seriously that means you have nothing against gay unions as long as children aren’t involved?”
I am serious. Why would think I was not. (I use their own standards as a mirror–they love to play the liberal but under scrutiny and not much of it they are everything they claim to deplore–racist, misogynist, classist, elitist). But don’t tell anyone about the hypocrisy.
Yes that would be pretty much correct with some nuance. They have tied children to marriage while at the same time asserting marriage does not have to be reproductive–one contradiction after another. In theory have no issue with civil unions, civil marriage–whatever it is called. I in fact do not personally believe in civil marriages in the first place, so why would I care. My issue is children. I was raised in a “same sex home” and it is not good for children, not at all good for them. I am not Christian so that is not my perspective. I think children have a right a mother and a father. I also know a bit more than what gets put out by the media–none of is “love makes a family” This is so far from “just between two people and not hurting anyone else” that it stunning they can even say it with a straight face. They literally think society owes them children. Since I grew up with them I know how very important it for children to have a mother and a father. This movement is shaping into the worst violator of children’s basic human rights. Who else takes peoples kids. I do not know how many people care about the kids or even think of them,
“A gay marriage doesn’t personally affect you in any way.”
Wow! Rather ironic – and insulting – to say that to someone whose mother is in a same-sex relationship. Of course it personally affects her – and in a very significant way.
To Katy – Just found your blog today. Thank you for having the courage and charity to speak out. God bless you.
No, gay marriage in general does not affect Katy. We were speaking in general terms.
Here is an example of true Christianity. When Jesus saved a woman from being stoned and all of the would-be assassin walked away, Jesus didn’t shun the woman for being an adulteress, but helped her up and told her to go and sin no more. He didn’t “judge” her in the sense that Christians are now being accused of being judgmental when they deliver the truth, nor did he excuse her sin. He encouraged her to stop doing something he knew to be harmful to her when he said, “go and sin no more.”
I have had several LGBT friends and co-workers over the years and have treated them like everyone else, just as I have treated my friends who are living with members of the opposite sex who they aren’t married to, and I am glad to say that my friends don’t throw my sin issues in my face or reject me. We can love and respect people without having to approve of all of their behaviors and beliefs. One of my best friends is Unitarian Universalist and we disagree on many things, but that doesn’t stop us from coming together on the things we agree on.
I also have a son who identifies as “gay” and here is why I don’t believe in homosexual marriage and why I am “obsessed” with gay sex.
Besides being a Christian who believes God says no on those subjects, I have read the research that shows pretty conclusively that there is no “gay gene” and that homosexuality is caused by early childhood traumas or experiences, such as abusive parenting, being bullied or rejected by same gendered peers during the formative years, being sexually abused as a child or being exposed to pornography. (See Narth.com).
I am also well aware of the serious and deadly consequences of practicing homosexual sex, especially for men, as well as all of the psychological and emotional issues that accompany a homosexual lifestyle, not because society if “homophobic” but because people with sexual identity issues are not being allowed to address the root causes of their issues, the childhood trauma, and so they attempt to mask their pain using self-destructive behaviors.
The Center of Disease Control lists the many medical conditions gay men experience just for having sex the way gay men have sex. In addition to the sexually transmitted diseases they get from passing body fluids, the bowl diseases that are common and the bacterial and infectious diseases and cancers they get as a result of rectal tears that allow toxins from the bowels to get into the blood stream causes gay men to live very unhealthy lives. Many are on numerous and costly medications and gay men generally die 20 to 30 years earlier than heterosexual men. I am focused on gay sex because as the mother of a gay man who I love, I am in fear for his life.
I have met many individuals who have overcome homosexuality and are leading happy, healthy heterosexual lives, and some have told me that their healing was delayed because of the false messages they received not only from our culture but also from medical and psychology professionals who have ignored science in order to be politically correct. Some profit greatly as a result.
My son isn’t the victim of his Christian family, but of the LGBT activists who hijacked our efforts to heal him while he was in high school and told him that it wasn’t the traumas from his childhood that were causing his issues, but his hateful parents and intolerant church. We didn’t even know he was having sexual identity issues. The secular counselor our pediatrician sent him to was only treating him for the childhood traumas. Telling an already injured child to reject everything and everyone he believed in was unbelievable cruel and emotionally devastating for him. They did not care about him or his needs. They only wanted another angry foot soldier to assist them in their activism.
For more information on how homosexual marriage really does affect everyone, and not in a good way, google “What Gay Marriage Has Done to Massachusetts.” There you will see who the real victimizers are.
That website discussing gay marriage in MA was mostly a litany of complaints about homosexuality being discussed in schools. While I personally don’t think it’s necessary to have Gay Days, etc, homosexuality exists and it’s past time we accept it. .
I agree the gay lifestyle can be unhealthy. I lived in San Fran with gay men for roommates. But, heteros take part in unhealthy lifestyles too, like swinging and BDSM. Gays haven’t cornered the market on bizarre, unhealthy perversions. Gayness doesn’t automatically make someone practice unsafe sex.
The LGBT were correct in pointing out religion is hateful to gays. Were you trying to “heal” your son from his gayness? Then you are the wrong parents for him. He needs a family that loves and accepts him unconditionally, not despite his being gay. I’ll adopt him. In our family, he would be loved and free to be who he is, and not be viewed as damaged goods. If your son was hurt by his experiences coming out, it was due to you and society’s intolerance of gayness, not the homosexuality itself or the LGBT. Place the blame where it belongs.
The main way religion is harmful to gays is the refusal to accept homosexuality. There is no evidence to support your claim homosexuality is brought on by trauma. People are not bullied into being gay. There is evidence to support gayness is natural. This comes from gays themselves. But even saying that, if people want to choose to be gay, that should be their right. We are supposed to live in a free society. Let people make their own choices. Stop trying to inflict YOUR religious beliefs on everyone else.
And while we’re on the subject, the way the religious claim a marriage between a men and woman is sacred is downright laughable. If it were so special, we wouldn’t have everyone getting a divorce after a couple years.
I call bull on your knowing men who have “overcome” homosexuality. They are just keeping it on the down low. They’re just pretending to not be gay because people like you are forcing them to. You think Pastor Ted Haggard isn’t gay now?
This might shed some light on your exposition on the ‘gay gene’, if gene’s can be influenced by thought… It kills the argument that genetic makeup has nothing to do with choice.
This blog has been a great read for me. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
Hi Katy! I’ve nominated you for the very inspiring blogger award!
Here’s the blogger who nominated me. 🙂
Friend. You are such a blessing to me. Thank you for your encouragement and good cheer. It’s an honor to know you.
You’re welcome and thank you! 😀
Your open letter to Justice Kennedy is awesome!!!
I have a question about how you view adoption by a heterosexual couple vs being raised by a gay couple. In both cases, there is at least one biological parent who is not in the picture – usually two. I see that you adopted a girl from China and so have a unique and valuable perspective on this matter.
Hi friend. Thanks for reading and commenting. The main thing that we need to keep in mind is that while brokenness finds children, we cannot be casual about or endorse the breaking of the parent/child bond. I write more about that here: https://askthebigot.com/2014/10/16/adoption-its-for-the-children-really/
Also, in the page Gay Marriage above, I write:
Some argue that two loving and caring men make a better home than a drug-addicted single mom. What fool would disagree with that? I actually traveled internationally with two women who were willing to adopt a girl with special needs. Those two women were game to take on a child that no heterosexual couple in her home country, or ours really, would adopt. Clearly, that precious child will have a far better life with my friends than in an under-staffed, under-funded foreign institution.
But let’s be clear, in all the above scenarios we are talking about degrees of brokenness. For the child, there is no such thing as an “intact” home when they are in a same-sex headed household. Just because in a few cases a child who has found themselves in a horrific situation would be better off with two parents of the same gender does not necessitate writing out of civil code the right to a relationship with one’s natural parents. Just like the children I know who are being raised by their aunt and uncle because their parents neglected them. Or the grandparents who are raising their grandson because his mother is an addict. Or the child who is being raised by her single mother because her father broke both of her mother’s legs and now the two are constantly moving to stay away from him. Brokenness finds children and the people in their lives do their best to pick up the pieces. However, we do not institutionalize or incentivize the grandparent-headed household, or the aunt-and-uncle-headed household, or the single-parent headed household. Why? Because public policy should not encourage or endorse brokenness for a child because a couple, or “throuple” wants to have a family. Children are entitled to parents. Not the other way around.
Wow, excellent answers!
I love your clarity on how adoption is child centered and not adult centered, whereas in gay adoption and gay marriage, it’s really for the adults and at the expense of the children. So clear. You also have a lot of clarity on how exceptions to the rule should not make public policy. Good point!
I read your blog link from October which is also excellent. Thanks.
Part of why I ask is that I believe the hand of God guides adoption in many cases. I hear from many adoptive couples that they feel that their child is “meant to be” their child and many have experiences of Christian guidance that ring true as well. I am not saying in this fallen world that all adoptions are this way any more than all marriages are “meant to be” but clearly some are, and as you say, adoption is the most blessed of God’s remedies for this brokenness so it seems likely that His Hand guides many adoptions.
However, you are right that adoption is born out of brokenness, so there will always be a wound. But it seems that the pain of that wound is lessened if you are where God plans for you to be.
Thank you for all you are doing!
I agree, brokenness is right. Why cultivate it? We should be working to reduce it. I am a child of a single parent and it made me afraid of getting married because I didn’t want to break up and then have to struggle by myself be lonely the way I see my mother. Like hell I’d want to replicate the misery I have lived. If God gives me marriage and children I want it to be his perfect plan and not some weirdo I get with an produce another generation of brokenness. I so badly want to do it right. I want to multiply blessing and stability, as if the world needs more pain and chaos.
Thank you for being an encouraging voice. Always stay close to the Father and reveal his heart for people of all situations.
Thanks Tazia. There is such redemption in lavishing love and security on your children, and doing so along side their father. Stay strong, friend.
Hi, thank you so much for what you are writing. You have such a powerful voice with your background/experiences. I cannot tell you how appreciative I am of you for sharing your beliefs in a cogent, clear manner. Your writing is flawless and truly moving, it gave me chills. My favorite two sentences were these –
“In same-sex-headed households, the DESIRES of the adults trump the RIGHTS of the child.”
I discovered your website after reading your letter to Justice Kennedy in a Public Discourse post. Excellent letter. I hope he reads it and strongly considers your personal experiences. The redefinition of marriage has affected my family in a different way. I live in Massachusetts where it all began, and you are right. The consequences of the decision made by one judge in my state changed so many things in addition to giving people of the same gender the ability to get married.
Forms have been changed so that husband/wife and mother/father no longer appear on many legal documents. When my daughter was recently referred to a specialist for a medical issue, I was the named “caregiver” on the form. After the nurse explained why I had been demoted and informed me that “mother” no longer existed in their computerized system, I made her use a pen to cross out “caregiver”‘ and write in “mother.”
On the MassResistance website, there is a video that explains what else “gay marriage” has done to Massachusetts. Among the most disturbing is that it has given LGBT activists access to our children in the public schools. From kindergarten on, a judge decided that since gay marriage is the law in Massachusetts, schools have an obligation to teach children about it. Parents have no right to object or opt their children out of lessons that not only teach their children not to be bigots, but also teaches these youngsters that their parents are bigots or have intolerant religions if they have opposing views.
Such activism in the schools allowed a guidance counselor to refer my son to a Gay Straight Alliance organization outside of school when he was 16 years old without our knowledge or consent. The guidance counselor knew our son had a therapist, but didn’t know he was seeing her for childhood traumas known to cause sexual identity issues in adolescents and adults. Your readers should consult the NARTH website concerning scientific research explaining how LGBT identities develop and the medical and psychological issues associated with them.
At the GSA, our son was told that he was born gay, could never change, that trying to change was dangerous and that anyone who didn’t embrace his sexual identity was a hater and a homophobe, including his family and the people of his church, where he was an active member of the youth group and a musician in the praise band. The psychological chaos this caused for our son at a fragile time in his social and emotional development was devastating and nearly destroyed our family.
When we asked the guidance counselor what law allowed her to refer our son to an outside organization without our knowledge and consent, she referred us to the administrators who backed her up. We now have a proposed law at he State House that would prevent schools from referring students to any outside organization without parental knowledge or consent. Think about it – students can’t go on a field trip without a note from a parent or guardian, but they can be sent to a GSA or Planned Parenthood because that is none of their parents business.
Our bill was “put out to study” last time around but no one was assigned to study it, which means the bill would not be brought before the general assembly for a vote. The chairwoman on the Joint Committee on Education told our State Representative that it never will be brought up for a vote because it is a “homophobic” bill. To us, it is a parental rights as well as a religious liberties issue. The school was well aware of our conservative values and our Christianity, as our son was very vocal about his faith. He even has a cross in the stone of his class ring.
No parent should ever have to re-convince their child that they love them, but that is exactly what we had to do thanks to the narrative of LGBT activists within the school and in organizations the school connected him with. While our son now understands that, although we do not believe he was born gay or that it is a healthy lifestyle for him, nothing could ever make us stop loving him. He is a precious to us as he always was.
Keep doing what you are doing, and God bless you for doing it. You are helping people more than you know.
Thank you Katy for your strong and gracious stand for traditional marriage. As one who has been helping people with SSA to leave homosexuality for over 20 years, I appreciate so much someone like you who is speaking out for the truth about marriage
Thank you for speaking out and for being so clear but also loving. This is an enormously challenging and difficult area to speak into. I have for years been looking for someone with a balanced view on being raised by gay parents and reading you was a breath of fresh air. I was raised in a Christian missionary home with one now outed gay parent and the other currently in a gay open-secret relationship. I am missionary in Europe but if there is anything I can do to help just let me know. The most practical from here is prayer so if you have prayer needs let me know.
Hi Katy, really interesting thesis you have presented in your recent Letter to Justice Kennedy. In your words: “Each child is conceived by a mother and a father to whom that child has a natural right. When a child is placed in a same-sex-headed household, she will miss out on at least one critical parental relationship and a vital dual-gender influence. The nature of the adults’ union guarantees this. Whether by adoption, divorce, or third-party reproduction, the adults in this scenario satisfy their heart’s desires, while the child bears the most significant cost: missing out on one or more of her biological parents”
You point out that these children whose rights are not being met are those who are products of “adoption, divorce, or third-party reproduction”. And of course “same-sex parents” as you outline in your article. I wonder then, why same-sex marriage (and ultimately same-sex parenting) is what you’re so against, when it seems that if you’re argument is that all children should be raise by and have access to their biological parents, that adoption and third-party reproduction can produce the same result – children being raise by two parents, neither of whom may be biologically related to the child.
I was really surprised at the end of your article to read in your byline that you, yourself, are an adoptive parent. What rights is your adopted child missing? Is he or she not suffering because of the loss of relationship with biological parents? Why are you pro adoption but anti gay marriage if your entire thesis is the lack of access to a bioparent? I would think that any child being raise by parents (one or more of any gender) who love them and meet their physical and emotional needs are absolutely fulfilling the rights of the child.
I would love an explanation.
My sister has adopted four children, two out of foster care and two from China. She also has three biological children.
She has done a lot of research on the emotional issues adopted children experience due to the loss they feel at various points in their lives because of their missing biological parents. The pain of that loss is inevitable and my sister wants to be prepared to help each of them through it whenever it comes. As she and her husband rescued each of them as orphans and loves them all, she would choose for them not to have that pain if there was anything she could do to prevent it. But they will experience it, and she will hopefully say and do the right things to ease their pain.
I once read and article written by a gay man who had children through a surrogate mother. If I remember correctly, he and his partner were raising the children and the biological mother was able to visit from time to time. I appreciated his honesty at how difficult it seemed for the mother and the children to separate each time she came for a visit and how he tried to comfort his children whenever the mother left. Although he acknowledged with sadness that their departures were painful and that a time of mourning always followed for his children, he didn’t seem ready to acknowledge his responsibility in creating this on-going circle of pain and loss in these tender hearts.
You can just go fuck yourself you evil cunt, may you suffer the pain you have caused so many. If your God ever tries to come back I will fist fuck that peice of shit then it will be your turn. I have many Chinese contacts, and have sent them a note to block any adoption by you. Fuck you and the evil you have done you stupid cunt.
Austin, do you have a little bit of a misogyny problem? Do you think women who do not agree with you are “cunts” and you don’t like that. Do you like to come and threaten them? You imagine they give a rats ass what you think. Does that impress your friends–Austin put on his big boy pants.
Take note: You have made our point–yet again. You pretty much scream–shitay parenting material–WE ARE ABUSIVE MEN DO NOT LET CHILDREN NEAR US. So there is something you and I agree on. So nice to share a common ground. BTW evil is a religious concept. Maybe use “bigot” that carries within the lack of intelligence and originality that you embody.
Perfect. Could not have said that better.
Hi, I love your blog and just want to have a place to get this off my chest.
My daughter is good friends with a lesbian couple who are “married” in California. 3 years ago they went through hell and a lot of the taxpayer’s money to get pregnant at a fertility clinic, both were well over 40. One woman supplied the egg, the other the womb and a beautiful baby girl was born but not without spending 3 months (and more tax money) in the hospital with complications.
The egg donor developed a rare form of brain cancer from the hormone treatments. She was saved by many experimental treatments and the generosity of a hospital in Portland, OR. She developed MS and now can barely speak. In the meantime, her partner, the womb-mom, found “true love” and left her, taking the child. They have a business together in Sebastopol, CA, so are civil, but it is so sad for the little girl who is still not even 3. I feel sick over this child having to go through this, and the thing was that the sick woman left her husband for this woman, tearing her other family apart.
I don’t know why women think it’s OK or “courageous” to leave their husbands for this life, but it hurts the children in the long run. This isn’t acceptable behavior for a straight couple, why do people forgive gays?
Thank you for your article, “Dear Justice Kennedy: An Open Letter from the Child of a Loving Gay Parent.” I am an opera singer and have a difficult time convincing my friends and colleagues that though I want marriage to stay between a man and a woman, I still appreciate and love them. You have said it beautifully. I have not heard this perspective before, but it makes sense!
I was lucky enough to be raised by my mom and dad, but my siblings and my husband come from a divorced situation. My husband just recently learned his mom will be remarried by the end of this year. His dad is already remarried. He is happy for his mom to have love in her life again. I was surprised, however, when he expressed he was sad his parents would never get back together again. They have been divorced for seven years. His brother and he were already raised when they divorced, and yet it still has an effect on him. He knew logically his parents would never get back together, but he expressed that something in him always hoped they would. What a devastating effect! And what motivation to work extremely hard to make my marriage successful.
Looking back at my own situation, I realize how important a man is in the home. Don’t misunderstand me! I am a very determined person, and know I can do it all myself (if we are being honest, with a lot of whining and self-pity). But allow me to share with you my own story.
When I was 16 my parents moved across country. My dad was offered a new job and promotion. I was the last child in the home and quite adventurous; the move was welcomed. About a year after arriving we suffered a devastating hurricane that flooded our city and many around it. Rather than uproot the family again, my dad left to work back in our home state, while my mom and I stayed in our new area. This was about 15 years ago. My dad recently retired and moved home. His absence was felt by my siblings and me.
Whenever he would come into town my siblings and I seemed to gravitate back home. It seemed like there was happiness and unity again. I never saw how important (sorry to admit it) he was in the structure of our family until he left and came back a few times. It made me realize as a strong, independent, and feminist woman that men are needed. I feel admitting that does not make me weak. I can do it myself, but why?
My mother is a tremendous, intelligent, beautiful woman who has always been our foundation. My dad, I discovered, is the glue that brings us together. Both of their presence is essential to the health of our family.
I remember reading in the Scriptures that the man is the spiritual head of the home. The head feeds, cleans and takes care of all the members of the body. It’s a very intimate illustration of family. When you decapitate the head, what happens to the body? Why my dad visits from our home country I feel like I’m 5 again and I somehow feel grounded like someone turned on the gravity again. I fully understand what you mean by that feeling of unity. But I feel like I’ve emotionally distanced myself from both parents because they are at odds and I guess it kind of hurts because I feel I am being torn in half.
Thank you so much for your blog, and for your compassionate honesty. Would that all parties to this and other hot-topic debates took the same approach!
Hello! I’m an Italian reader of your blog (well… ok, a quite new reader!) and I have a question for you: an italian journal published a letter with 6 authors one of whom is you. It’s about Dolce&Gabbana statements on gay parents. Can you please tell me if this letter’s real? I can’t find any trace about it on the web…
Hello and welcome. Yes it’s real. We authored the letter together in support of Dolce & Gabbana. Here is the link http://www.tempi.it/lettera-a-dolce-e-gabbana-da-sei-figli-cresciuti-da-coppie-gay-grazie-per-il-vostro-coraggio#.VQb16pVFDX4. The translation is here:
Dear Dolce and Gabbana,
Greetings from the United States. The six signers of this letter were all raised by gay and lesbian parents. Five of us are women and one is a queer man, though we all raised our children with their opposite-sex parents. We want to thank you for giving voice to something that we learned by experience: Every human being has a mother and a father, and to cut either from a child’s life is to rob the child of dignity, humanity, and equality.
We know that gay parents can be loving, since we loved our parents and they loved us. Nonetheless, we have all had firsthand experience with the harsh backlash that follows when the dominant view of “gay parenting” as universally positive is questioned. We know that you will come under tremendous pressure, especially now when both Italy and the United States are being pushed to override our concerns for our rights to a mom and dad, in order to please a powerful gay lobby.
Nobody receives more vicious attacks from the lobby than those who come from the gay community and question its policies: children of gay couples just as much as the gay men who defend them (like the two of you).
In all likelihood many in the international community will try to get your shows cancelled, your advertisements censored, and your reputation destroyed online. You have shown yourselves to be extremely brave. You have given us great inspiration as all six of us prepare to submit letters to the US Supreme Court against gay marriage.
We want to praise your courage and thank you for your inspiration. We also implore you not to surrender when the backlash grows in intensity. If you back down from what you said and apologize, it will leave the children of gay homes even more vulnerable and discredited. It is important for our sake, for the sake of Italian children as well, that you not apologize or capitulate. Please support the idea that all children need to be bonded with their mothers and fathers. It is a human right.
If we can help you in any way, please, let us know. We are not all Christian but we want to send you our blessings, and we promise that we will be lifelong buyers of Dolce and Gabbana from now on.
Heather Barwick, contributor to Federalist
Rivka Edelman, co-author of Jephthah’s Daughters: Innocent Casualties in the War for Family Equality
Katy Faust, writer at asktheBigot
Robert Oscar Lopez, co-author of Jephthah’s Daughters: Innocent Casualties in the War for Family Equality
Denise Shick, author of My Daddy’s Secret
Dawn Stefanowicz, author of Fuori Dal Buio: La Mia Vita Con Un Padre Gay
Thanks for your answer! There were a bit of questioning about it, now we’re sure!
Yes it is real. I am another one of the authors. We were all touched, and grateful that Dolce&Gabbana came out on the side of children and women. We each have publications on the topic of same sex parenting and why we are against it. Calling it a fake–is one of the tactics of LBGT to call things made up or frauds–they have no argument against what we are saying. So they just lie and threaten and bully. And they then claim they are great parents of the bought humans they pretend are theirs.
TBH we see so many fakes in every part of the web that the fear was legit, especially since, this time, the italian news was the first one to publish It! But now we know for sure… again, thank you all!
We are grateful that they chose to publish what is sure to be a very unpopular letter. Thanks for stopping in Amico Mio! (Mia?)
“Mio” is right! Anyway, I’m gonna join the choir of congratulation for your work. You give a really interesting edge on the argument! I’ll keep on following this blog!
Hi – I’m writing from a British newspaper and wondering if you or one of the signatories to the open letter to D&G could get in touch. thks, A
Hi Abigail, I think you’ve already connected with Dawn but if there’s anything else you need, feel free to email me at asktheBigot@Hotmail.com
It’s great to have intelligent, thoughtful debate around issues like this. When one has to resort to threats, name calling, bullying etc. it is most often because they are unable to defend themselves through respectful debate. Keep up the blogging. We need more people to speak openly and honestly to make the world a better place.
What are your feelings about women who are single and conceive through IVF?
Hi Butters, I know you didn’t ask me and my views are my own and not necessarily the owner of the blog (disclaimer!). But as a child of a single parent I could never understand deliberately conceiving a child into a single parent situation. It makes me wonder if that mother is doing it for the child or just to have a teddy bear. For a child that is not even conceived yet, you have a chance to prepare a stable cradle for them with a spouse. You have the option of more time and resources to prepare or postpone.
Why doesn’t the single person adopt? Even though a single parent home is still less than ideal it’s still better than being in foster care. Those kids are already born and out there and need to be taken someplace safe.
There is this phenomenon in single parent homes. After a while, that child will start to be more like a companion for that parent rather than being the child. I know because it happens to me. I end up with child AND husband role which is pretty awkward and burdensome. Even if that single parent is wealthy and can provide all that is needed materially, there is still and spiritual and emotional loss of the other parent and we will feel that gap all our lives. In light of that, I do not understand deliberately conceiving a child into this situation. Why can’t they get the best? I am still grateful to my mom who cared for me but I have so many hangups to overcome. However, I am comforted by the fact that it could have been worse. I could have had no one at all. I’m typing kind of late so I hope I make sense. Peace~
My heart goes out to you Dear! And yet the Liberal agenda insists that LGBT is a gene problem. If Jesus cast out demons, why can’t we cast out LGBT demons? Aren’t they the same thing?
Pray for Austin, whomever he is, he really has you on his ‘hate list’.
Meanwhile I will pray for you.
Hi Katy, I’ve spent the majority of the (rather boring) afternoon reading your blog out of sheer curiosity. Full disclosure, I am a bisexual man in a committed relationship (though nowhere near ready for marriage) with another man and I am very interested in the perspective of people who disagree. I think it’s important to always know what the opposition is saying, and after looking through a number of anti-gay marriage blogs I think yours is without a doubt the most rational and even-keeled oppositional discourse. Though you are a pastor’s wife, you don’t seem to hinge your beliefs on religion (though personally speaking I think your argument comes directly fro your faith and you wouldn’t have a problem with gay marriage if you weren’t Christian) and as an atheist I can appreciate that. My own father does not support gay marriage and he, like you, attempts to do that on a secular basis though is a practicing Christian.
The reason I am writing this comment is that it just plain irks me how close you come to rational discourse and then immediately fall directly off that path through your associations with notoriously homophobic and bigoted people and organizations and your illogical inability to discern the negatives between gay adoption and straight adoption. All of your arguments against gay adoption, that it robs the child of its natural parents, etc. could just as easily be attributed to straight adoption. In order for a child to be adopted, they must lose their parents, our government doesn’t take children from parents without a good reason for doing so (and I seriously doubt that gay marriage would change this, though I have seen you attempt to argue that it will out of hand).
Now let’s get back to your connections to other organizations. You, yourself, seem to be a very kind, gentle, loving person without an ounce of homophobia. I have read other commenters accuse you of being anti-gay and bigoted and homophobic but none of your personal beliefs in my opinion are inherently homophobic. However, you choose to file amicus briefs and partner alongside people who absolutely are homophobic. I’m sorry, but Mr. Lopez is a homophobic bigot. You really can’t get past that fact when encountering his body of work, he has frequently referred to gay adoption as slavery (though like you he has never once decried straight adoption), he has questioned whether gay men feel like “rape victims” and has attempted to link gay parenting to the oppression and genocide of the Native American people. He has written terrible gay fiction that attempted (unsuccessfully) to mix gay eroticism with the moral that homosexuality is wrong and leads to pain and despair. Now, he is his own man and you are your own woman, but your continued insistence on defending his positions and working alongside him show me that you not only are OK with his homophobia but on a certain level seem to agree with it.
Another thing: you don’t seem to care too much when your commenters are extremely homophobic. I understand you have no control over their actions but I’ve personally seen you commend commenters who compare homosexuality to murder or pedophilia or describe gay marriage as destructive to society.
I want rational discourse and your blog, again, is the closest I’ve seen from your side of the argument. You even admit that you can’t find many other places online that speak out against gay marriage without falling into biblical or religious references, so I think you could represent a far more rational voice in your community if you were a bit more discerning in your professional relationships on this issue. I understand that people like Mr. Lopez are friends, but there is a harsh difference in the tone of his bigotry (and he has true bigotry) compared to your logical, rational (albeit Christocentric) discourse against gay marriage
Hi ZetaZed, and welcome. I’m so glad you are here and I’m thankful for your comments.
Unfortunately I don’t have time to respond to every commenter these days and may not get to all of your points but let me take a stab at a few.
First, you are right about extreme voices on both sides represented in my comments. I have thought about disabling the comments altogether, but it’s a “throw out the baby with the bathwater” kind of thing. Because I learn a lot from voices on both sides and there are times, many times I’d say, when genuine discussion takes place and I don’t want to lose that. Having to talk, listen, and respond to others makes us more balanced and more equipped to engage. I do review each comment, even briefly, to ensure that no one is being hunted or information which could be used to personally harm someone isn’t being shared. And I have unapproved/banned comments from both sides which target one particular person in a way that might reach them outside of the virtual discussion. But other than that, what people say and how they say it says more about them than anything else.
I am regularly shocked by people’s response to Bobby Lopez. He is a man raised by two women, and as a result experienced such father hunger that he was a male sex worker during his adolescence, got his girlfriend pregnant and then ordered his desires and world around caring for his wife and children. He knows the very real injustice suffered by children when they are intentionally deprived a relationship with a parents. In his adult life, he sacrificed so his wife and children didn’t have to. That’s real manhood.
Now, contrast that with Terrance Bean 66 year old founder and head of HRC which placed Bobby on their “watch list.” He advocated for LGBT rights and had the ear of the President AND IS A CONVICTED PEDOPHILE. http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/11/20/kiah-lawson-terry-bean-human-rights-campaign-gay-sex-obama-prison-column/70021560/ Can I get a little outrage on behalf of the gay community for that please?
Bobby has compared children born through surrogacy and purchased by two men, to black slave children taken from their mothers and handed over to unrelated adults.
Terrance Bean rapes boys.
I ask you, who belongs on a “watch list?”
Regarding adoption, the International Children’s Rights Institute which Bobby founded and of which I am a member has a strong focus on adoption and adoption reform. Claudia D’Arcy (http://www.adoptionbirthmothers.com/musings-of-the-lame-an-adoption-blog/) a same-sex marriage supporter and adoption critic was one of the speakers at the ICRI inaugural conference. No one is going easy on adoption or third-party reproduction- because they both come at a great cost to the child. The difference is that third-party reproduction creates a wound for the sake of adult desire. Adoption seeks to remedy a wound for the sake of children’s rights. Kids who are recovering from abandonment especially need a mother and father whenever possible. I talk about adoption here: https://askthebigot.com/2014/10/16/adoption-its-for-the-children-really/ as well as in this Public Discourse piece: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/04/14813/
In terms of my faith, I touch on that and how it plays into my views in this post, exhibit E. https://askthebigot.com/2015/02/09/my-as-to-your-qs-and-other-juicy-tidbits/
Thank you again for your comments. You are welcome here. Please don’t be a stranger. Just because I don’t have a chance to respond to everything, doesn’t mean that I’m not grateful for your contribution.
Take care, friend.
This is factually incorrect. Terry Bean was arrested and charged, not CONVICTED, of sexually abusing one 15 year old boy, not BOYS. Terry Bean is on a “watch list” called bail bond and he will have his day in court.
I have never once heard Bobby (or you for that matter) speak out against the practice of single adoption in this country, where children are left to one parent, but those make up 33% of all US adoptions. Gays make up far fewer and provide a family with two parents (more than one) yet THAT’S the one you spend all your time and resources fighting. Oh sure, you write an article about IVF or adoption heritage rights, but what have you been paid by groups like the Witherspoon Institute to speak against? What part of your views got you a ticket to the March for Marriage last week? So don’t pretend like you’re equal in your criticisms of adoption practices, it is very clear that one adoption practice irks you more than any other and you go out of your way to speak against it and I think that has plenty to do with your connections to your evangelical church as much as you try to deny it. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that you and Bobby and all of you supposedly vexed children of gays all belong to evangelical religious organizations (mostly Christian but of course Rivka Edelman’s crazy ass is Jewish). Show me a prominent atheist who is against gay adoption and gay marriage, they simply don’t exist.
Now, your rebuttal to my claims about Mr. Lopez is that the President of the HRC is on bail for child rape charges? That’s really your comeback? What does that have to do with the fat Mexican bigot exactly? I never once said I even supported the HRC, and I’m not the one who signed my name to an amicus brief in the Supreme Court with Mr. Bean like you did with the hateful Mexican landwhale. So you can change the topic all you want, but I want you to remember you’ve chosen to associate with him, and as much as you claim to like him, he is a virulently bigoted individual who will (and is currently) bring down your credibility. I think you realize that since you don’t seem to make a convincing argument in favor of his statements and conduct.
I’m really sorry you had your feelings hurt by not having a father, but honestly grow up. The fact that you had two people who were willing to spend all their time and effort raising you makes you luckier than more than half of the US population. And you want to marginalize that and prevent it from happening in the future for other couples because…why? Because you felt lonely on Father’s day? That’s not a good enough reason to deny adoption rights to capable parents. The simple fact is that among children of gay parents, you and that fat asshole are in the severe minority.
I would also like to point out that you can give a political anti-gay organization a nice, humanitarian sounding name like “International Children’s Rights Institute” all you want but not everyone is gullible enough to fall for it. I know you guys aren’t the real Children’s Rights Institute, and I know that instead of focusing on things like access to clean water or fighting the use of children in suicide bombs or ethnic warfare, which are aims of that great organization, you instead focus on keeping gays from being parents.
You guys are basically the same as The American College of Pediatricians. You stole the name of a legitimate non-partisan organization, changed it slightly so people would think you really were the legitimate non-partisan organization, and operated your socially conservative anti-gay marriage group under that name hoping to trick people into not looking into the group itself.
I’m not saying you guys shouldn’t be free to speak out against gay adoption and gay marriage, but using a name like “International Children’s Rights Institute” in my mind is wholly disingenuous.
You seem rather preoccupied with what the adult children of Gays are doing and saying?
Do you think that is normal?
Do you think heterosexuals have a group of unhinged abusive people paid to troll attacking about their adult children?
Do you think that in and of it is maybe pushes the outer edge of normal and is abusive?
It kinda stands in stark contrast to the whole “loving” song and dance and the “just like any other parents” Sorry nothing like. Normal people do not have a whole troop of men that attack and stalk and bully their adult children. Only the gay community does it and worse. In fact only LGBT seems to pay people to stalk and intimidate the kids. I mean think about it, how many children raised in other groups are stalked harassed and threatened by adult members–none.
Uhm–not just like everybody else too much.
Could it be, is it possible that only GLAAD and HRC pay people to abuse and bully adult children of gay that dare to challenge the narrative? Could that be possible? Yah think it might backfire–when people realize. Again it does not scream “great parenting” no most people are not keen to hand over children to abusive pathological people. You do not even know how sick you look and most people do not know how sick you are but they will. It does not take much to scratch the surface.
I’m preoccupied because Ms. Faust, Ms. Barwick and Mr. Lopez wrote an amicus brief attempting to prevent me from achieving the same rights that they do, so yes, I am a little preoccupied. And I cannot help but mention the fact that all of these people have ties to evangelical Christian organizations because I think that’s probably something that people should know before taking their argument at face value.
I didn’t realize that posting in a comment section made me “unhinged” and “abusive.” Is this because I called out the fat bigot? I’m no saint, I don’t want to pretend like I have respect for that troll and I’m being hones tabout how I feel about him. Have I insulted any other of these children of gays? Have I insulted Ms. Faust? I believe I’ve been perfectly reasonable with her.
I am not part of any troop. I do not belong to GLAAD or the HRC, in fact I kind of despise GLAAD a lot of the time, I am simply here out of my own boredom. I’m not here to spread the love of the LGBT community, I’m simply here for my own curiosity and I will be honest about how I feel about fat bigots who refers to gay parenting as “creepy gay child abuse masquerading as gay rights.” I find that type of language incendiary and I will not treat the source with any modicum of respect.
I’ve read your posts IMHO and you are the most delusional anti-gay poster on the board. You constantly complain about what the gay lobby is doing and fall right into Lopez’ idiotic “gay parents are slaveowners” belief. I have seen you many times claim that gay parents don’t actually want to be parents but simply want to steal children for political gain. I couldn’t honestly care less what you think about me or my posts.
Zeta perhaps you know or perhaps not but submitting an amicus brief is a protected right in this country but you prove that the LBGT lobby has cyber stalked, harassed, bullied and threatened the adult children of Gays. You do realize that several others also wrote briefs and there are the ones that did not write briefs. You also realize that the social science presented saying “gay parents are better” (that’s rich–better, what deluded egos) was found twice by a supreme court justice to be flawed and worthless. You do not need to care bro–the fact that you cited the amicus proves the pattern of targeted harassment against children of gays who happen to tell the truth. Good luck spinning the “just like all other parents” line. What a twisted abusive delusion you live in. Yes delusional because I noticed and stated that Gay men will be going down in history for crimes against humanity–Industrialized Baby Breeding with impoverished 3rd World Women. I don’t even have to break Godwin’s law the connection makes itself. Proving the point yet again.
I never said it wasn’t a right. I never said Katy isn’t well within her rights to fight for what she wants in court. But she’s not fighting for her rights, she’s fighting to prevent me and people like me from achieving the same rights as her, so I have the right to speak against her and criticize her. I don’t understand why you think she should be devoid of criticism for her actions, especially when the people she has professionally aligned herself with (and who signed that brief) include Lopez, whose vehemently anti-gay bigotry can not be logically defended in my book.
I don’t view commenting on a blog as harassment, cyber stalking, bullying or threatening. If Ms. Faust views otherwise then she can tell me so and I’ll leave and never come back. And I understand that certain LGBT activists have sought to de-anonymize people like Ms. Faust, but that’s again because these are people who have publicly fought against homosexual civil rights (which marriage is according to the Supreme Court 14 separate times) and they don’t believe they should be able to do so anonymously. Even the people who found out who she was simply did so to put a name to her statements, did they attack her? Have they threatened her? Is she in danger? No.
Irrational statements like “Industrialized Baby breeding” show to me that you are a sick individual and are proof of the statement that I made to Katy when I first commented here: that commenters like you and her inability or unwillingness to speak against your hate brings down the quality of her entire blog. You know nothing of the surrogacy industry if you think gays are the ones running it. That industry is dominated by trendy upper-class heterosexual Westerners. So don’t lay their crimes at the gay community.
“Fat Mexican bigot”? “Hateful Mexican land whale”? “Fat asshole”?
What were you saying about your disdain for bigotry again?
Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realize speaking truths about a person were signs of bigotry. Which parts did I get wrong about his character? Is he not fat? Is he not Hispanic? Is he not a bigot? I think I can prove pretty consistently that all three of those things are very true about this cretin.
The moment he stops referring to me, a gay man, as a “rape victim” I think I might change my tune about the fat blowhard who can’t write worth a damn.
In contrast, Josh Duggar of Family Research Council confessed, but was never charged or convicted of molesting his own sisters in part because his parents dragged their feet about reporting him to local authorities. Can I get a little outrage on behalf of the conservative community for that please?
I agree I hate hypocrisy. Spot on Doc, that’s why I have so much more respect the founder of the Human Rights Campaign, Terry Bean, who never reported himself to police for raping children. And was a real man he went “all the way.” Panty waist 15 year old Duggar only molested, Bean 60 year old with short eyes knows that forcible penetration is the money shot. But he is not hypocrite is he. No he is business as usual–Human Rights and all. Indeed the contrasts are enlightening, a tad bloody and torn but not hypocrisy.
Plenty of sarcasm, vulgarity and blind hatred typical of IMHO but no outrage to be found. I didn’t think so.
Why should I be outraged. A kid molested another kid? Very common, unfortunate but common. I am a mother children are sexual and curious. It is true. Terry Bean translates that to mean 60 year old men have sexual pleasure rights to 13 year old boys–that is outrageous. And to claim that is a Human Right–sex with children is a Human Right. Given that, no I am not outraged that a teenage boy molested another kid. And either are you. You are just nasty and manipulative.
I think a 60 year old man penetrating a 13 year old boy is outrageous though, and you don’t. And the inability to see the difference between these two is what makes you dangerous. Parents protect children–all children, the good, the bad, the ugly. And you have proven sir that you are so far from parenting material that it is chilling. If that is what “outrages” you given what goes on in the LGBT community–you prove my point.
Oh Rocki dude you are a liar–shocking, simply shocking. Please show me where anyone said “Gays are child rapists and more outrageous.” How sad how desperate.
It’s twitter, and it’s hard to paraphrase your vitriol in 140 characters or less.
You’re so consumed with hatred you can’t see the world or even words for what they are. It’s very sad and I hope you find peace and happiness in your heart someday.
I’m going to unsubscribe from all follow up comments because it’s clear nobody is changing their mind anytime soon on this site.
Change my mind? On what basis would I? You seriously imagined that I would throw reality to the wind and sign up for a crash course on “shit LGBT lie about” Been there done that. You forget I am the product of same sex parenting and of the LGBT movement. So it not my “mind” that has wandered willy nilly to some default position. My opinion is based in lived experience. I am actually pretty happy compared to what my childhood was like. I am committed to exposing and documenting all the abusive distortions and manipulations that are LGBT. It is hard to keep up.
Though not all gay men are like docrocki, he by himself likes to lie about others, put words into other people’s mouths and make himself the victim so he can ignore everyone for ‘hurting his feelings’. No where in your statement did you say that all gay men are child-rapists, you merely pointed out that making cheap personal attacks on those of the conservative side, backfires. Liberals and gay men aren’t any more or less perfect than conservatives and straight men. Don’t let his bullshit nonsense get to you. This is just a great display of his brazen immaturity, and even greater display of his victim-mentality he denies he has so fervidly. Hopefully he’ll grow out of it by the time his children start asking about their biological mothers, and why Daddy and Papa bought them from a company. He’s a entitled child who never grew up, just try to ignore it.
“I’m going to unsubscribe from all follow up comments because it’s clear….” that nobody is buying my distortions and lies about the SSM oppositions logical and correct argument to deny homosexuals the ‘right’ to redefine an institution that provides the underpinnings of a free society- is what the SSM advocate really meant to say.
So, when they lose the debate on its merits, the ‘better than heterosexual “parents” pick up their marbles and storm out of the room.
Can’t wait to see what the next generation of SSM ‘children’, presuming we all survive that long, brings to the free society/western civilization table.
I stumbled onto your blog from Public Discourse. Thank you for your work. I know many Christians have issues with Mormon’s, but there is an organization called Northern Lights that primarily ministers to Mormon’s with same-sex attraction. They have a project called “Voices of Hope” which consists of video essays by individuals dealing with same-sex attraction and/or their families. Many, many of those individuals are in mixed-orientation marriages and share their stories with their spouses. I know that the Carolina’s of this world think that they are all lying, but the stories and their witnesses of the Savior are powerful.
Hi Tori!! Welcome and great to have you here. I world work with some GOOD LDS ladies at CanaVox.com. And from what I see the Mormon church is striving to love their same-sex attracted brothers and sisters without compromising on marriage and family. Well done.
Hello Mrs(?). Faust:
I was using your two articles to Justice Kennedy (‘PS…’ and ‘A Letter…’), written in April and found within the Public Discourse, and I am wondering if I could have these sent directly to me, because they are no longer found! What happened?
Thanks for your work,
Hmmm. Strange. Try this link: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/02/14370/ and this one: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/04/14813/.
Thanks for writing, and welcome to asktheBigot!
I read your “Open Letter to Justice Kennedy on Aleteia.com” and want to thank you for such clarity in your appeal. I have also been writing on the subject at SperoNews.com and have a website called, “Families for Families” based on the principles espoused by John Paul II’s “Familiaris Consortio’ (the Community of Family) at http://www.familyandchild.net. My facebook connection is http://facebook.com/thomas.bartolomeo.3
God bless your work!
Fr. Tom Bartolomeo
Fr Tom. Thanks for stopping in. Looks like you have some fantastic resources for families! Keep up the good work.
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your blog. This is such important information that is NOT being shared by the mass media. Thank you for your courage and honesty. It is not easy to do. I am an LDS married father of three who has a day job and doesn’t quite know how to get engaged in this debate- though I feel it is VERY important. As the Supreme Court decision gets closer I find myself dashing about for the kind of good information you provide here- some of us have been asleep at the helm I’m afraid. I only hope and pray that Justice Kennedy will happen upon your blog and read every last word! At the risk of sounding overly dramatic, I feel that the future of our great civilization is at stake with this issue.
One question for you…I really don’t like the term “gay”. Personally, I don’t know what it means. To me, there are two very different classes of individuals I encounter in this debate- 1) those who experience same sex attraction and don’t act on it and 2) those who engage in homosexual behavior. To me, they are vastly different groups who merit much different responses from Christians (yes, Mormons are Christians too). My interpretation is that the actual behavior is the sin and not the impulse to behave that way. We all deal with things like this every day. Personally, I recognize that I am selfishness-oriented and impatience-oriented, therefore I have to resist my inner impulses to be selfish or impatient. This is my inner struggle, my cross to bear. As long as I resist those impulses, I am not sinning. We’ve all been given different challenges that will test our inner resolve and ability to resist acting on unholy impulses.
So what does it mean to you if someone identifies as “gay”? Does this term encompass everyone who has a same-sex attraction (whether acted upon or not) or just those who are engaging in homosexual behavior (and I freely admit the possibly that many of those engaging in homosexual behavior may not even have that same-sex attraction in the first place but are doing so for other reasons)?
THANK YOU! You are a gallant warrior in this fight. Keep up the good work. Many faithful followers of Christ who don’t have your knowledge and background are grateful for what you are doing.
Marco- you are not being overly dramatic when you fear the adverse effects of SSM on western civilization.
Check out the Bigots Gay Marriage post and review a sampling of the comments there by both SSM proponents and opponents.
The evidence for your (and my) fears for our free society are not unfounded.
And, I agree about the language- it has been hijacked for nefarious purposes. It’s also time for us to take back our language, as we struggle to protect our children and our culture.
I was wondering if you have a post that explicitly addresses how you believe a Christian who experiences same sex attractions should live their lives in terms of romance. I’d be interested to know if you think they should attempt a heterosexual marriage or just remain celibate.
Remember what I say about “questions”.
Uh-boy- will these rattlers never cease to attempt to lure the innocents away from their Garden of Eden to sample their poison fruits?
‘Violet’ appears to be just a ‘wisp’ away from Pink!
A sprinkle of garlic here and there is warranted-
Yeah they come around with those little barbed phony questions. Let her ask me. I would tell her. That falls under “not my problem. not my business”. Watch if ATB responds her next move is “are you saying that …” fill in the hysterical whiny accusation. The question was addressed already by the worlds major religions.
My heart breaks for you, IMHO. To think of a child having to bear the brunt of such emotional abuse is unfathomable. You certainly, obviously, didn’t let such incredible dysfunction define your own sanity, or life.
Hope you’re cranking out that book, or movie. The world needs to hear the truth.
I am cranking–book is more my speed. I just wish people would look at the all the tactics and manipulations and strategies and realize that this movement has very little to do with equality and is authoritarian in nature uses people and sees children as commodities they are entitled to. This next generation is going to even more damaged because now they have bullied so many people.
It’s okay, you don’t need to worry about Bigot. I’ve been asking her questions for some time. One thing in her favour is she likes to explain her opinions. I’m sure it’s something she will have addressed, because it’s kind of key to her campaign. I’m just looking for a link here, although other people have been interested enough to craft a post from scratch.
If either of you two have blogs I’d be delighted to pop by and join your conversations.
I am not sure what you mean by “campaign” she has some answers to common questions I think posted. I don’t know what you mean by “link” or post craft post from scratch? I do not have a blog. I think about starting one but I am much more a publication person.
Ask Kevin your question- he loves to explain/expound upon his opinions-
Thanks! Does that mean Bigot doesn’t have a post or an opinion on this? Surely not. It’s a basic issue for a Christian campaign to stop gay people having relationships. Are you from her congregation?
(S)he might try consulting the laws of nature where ‘romance’ is nothing more than a ritualized courtship behavior practiced between only opposite sex individuals before they mate for the sole purpose of producing progeny.
I don’t understand why atheists don’t look to nature for the answers and solutions to their problems. They always query Christians-interestingly. If I maintained I had ‘science’ on my side and knew all the answers to/about life that have been perplexing humans since they crawled out of that monkey suit, I certainly wouldn’t continue to keep looking for ‘love’ in all the wrong places.
It is equally perplexing why they focus all their ‘tell me why your religion or why you believe” questions are targeted to Christians, only – is that because they think Islam is not one of the great religions- from which they may derive some answers/solutions to their questions/problems? I’ve yet to see a LBGTQ activist or atheist blog targeting or trying to convert Muslims to atheism- waddup widdat?
They can take down any Christian religious argument with ease. They do not have that ability with Orthodox Judaism for a variety of reasons but they might develop it in the future. They do not target Muslims I suspect because it is kinda hard to gas-light and name call your way out of a beheading,a stoning, or getting thrown from a roof. They have a kind of erotic exotica fetish with Islam–it is after all male dominated and very cruel–right up their ally. Let’s see them push this in the Muslim world. I am sure ISIS is deeply committed to LGBT rights.
I’m a naturalist. Do you have a response to the biological, evolutionary argument against SSM and parenting?
I am not aware of any LBGTQ persecutions or prosecutions in Vatican State- ‘ground zero’ for ‘radical’ and ‘homophobic’ Christianity – are you?
But, I am aware that the Catholic Church has provided the most consistent leadership, and majority funding and care facilities to battle AIDS-HIV, worldwide, since its spread throughout ‘gay’ western civilization communities. I am not sure what China, Soviet Union/Russia, NK, Cuba the Islamic nations or the other non-Christian strongholds have done to help these poor victims- if anything.
What are the Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist and Judaic positions on SSM or parenting? Why do you only target Christians? Does that ‘turn the other cheek’ philosophy attract you? Are you a bully?
The Bigot speaks for herself, quite obviously.
It’s going to be an interesting debate when the detractors of Western Civilization are forced to debate the merits of their religion, Atheism, with the growing Christian populations in Africa, South America and Asia. While they grow into the culture and philosophy that defines the Wests’ values, morals and successes, we’re being pulled down into the abyss of past, failed social, ethical and morally bankrupt philosophical systems.
How is that elitist white privilege atheist attitude going to play out in the minority communities? How will LBGTQ battle this oppressed, minority population? Will they be called bigots, haters or phobes?
Inquiring minds need to know.
So, not all atheists goose-step in lock step?
As an aside, because of recent silly ‘pinkish’ claims made here at ATB re: documented ‘homosexuality’ (as an obligate function) in the natural world, it bears repeating- these claims are totally unfounded.
Because a few (and I mean 3 or 4) unconventional (and radical activist) LBGTQ ‘biologists’ fudged the interpretation of data and observations – by anthropomorphizing it/them (a no-no in any analyses in the natural sciences) – of perceived homosexual sexual behavior between same-sex individuals does not a ‘gay’ animal ‘couple or community’ make. No fit animal would waste its valuable resources (energy) on same sex “sex” since it is a distinct evolutionarily disadvantageous behavior. The behavior that is being purposely distorted to support an ideological agenda has actually evolved to be anything but sexual, in nature. Same-sex purported sexualized behavior in animals does not serve the same function as it does in humans; it serves to either challenge or confirm the social order among the group or between individuals in the group. Only humans have sexually eroticized genitalia; genitalia to animals are no different than any other parts of their bodies. When animals focus on other individuals genitalia, it is not a behavior that should be sexualized or eroticized, as was done by the few dishonest (and peer criticized) LBGTQ ‘biologist’- activists. The behavior, which all field research biologists/naturalists have witnessed for eons, has nothing to do with animal sexual behavior, which is creating a pair-bond and mating/copulating to produce progeny. Reminder: pair-bonding and mating to produce progeny are central to the survival of the species. Any behavior that usurps that evolutionary truth (runs counter to it) is disadvantageous to the fitness of the species, and therefore, to be considered an aberrant behavior.
It’s a no- brainer that animals are not obligate homosexual (as practiced by 1.6%-2.0% of humans) for anyone that’s gotten out of their overly insulated Ivory Tower long enough to ever study, or simply observe the natural world. Zoo inhabitants and domesticated animals (our ‘gay’ penguins and sheep) exhibit all sorts of aberrant behavior- including ‘gay partnering and parenting’. This abnormal behavior is attributable to having to reside and function in their unnatural environment. It’s an aberrant behavior resulting from abnormal environmental conditions (hint-hint).
Animals exhibit many aberrant behaviors. The object of the game for humans is not to emulate the aberrant behaviors but to take our lessons from the normal, evolutionarily advantageous behaviors. To date- monogamous life long bonding between opposite sex individuals has gotten us to as fit a species, and society, as ever before in human history.
Anthropologists, archaeologists and sociologists may formulate many theories apart from nature as to why humans behave as they do or why they are where they are; but, only biologists (from molecular-geneticists to ecologists to zoologists to ethologists) should faithfully (not politically) analyze the hard evidence and define those evolutionary links with our ancestors that have affected, and directed homo sapiens for all time; those same links, incidentally, worshipped by secular-humanist atheists. Of course, in light of evolutionary revelation contradictory to their ideology, rather than reject the philosophy and theology of their god, their lord, Darwin, they must resort to distorting and defaming nature itself. But, not so fast – you little rascals – we all have our own senses and intellects with which to detect and analyze these natural truths.
Imagine the ‘logic-train’ running so far off the tracks that you have to restate the painfully obvious laws of nature for the ‘indoctrinated’ among the secular-progressive-humanist-atheist segment of the population? It is this same indoctrination that produced the past two generations of imbeciles who think the Revolutionary War was fought between America and France, and ended in 1946, or that Gen. Patton led the Continental Army (once that term was defined for the ‘good statist’ interviewees). We can thank the leftist-socialist-progressive-humanist school system for this idiocy, and, for the idiocy that claims ‘homosexuality’ exists in nature-
I figured out how to follow you and leave replies Katy! Love love love your blog!
I discovered this site about a week ago and have read what i could in my free time. Thank you for your work here and allowing a discussion on the most serious of topics. In this last week I feel that I have learned so much! As for your commenters I would like to single out Jae particularly for his perspective; but I am grateful to all your supporters for speaking out to defend and promote what is best for children.
Hi dsm3436- thank you, and happy to hear that the truth is recognized and appreciated by visitors, and hopefully a new contributor and participant, to ATB.
I saw your interview on ABC Lateline. May I ask why you connect gay marrige with children?
To me these are completely 2 things.
We have people who marry but do not have children. There are people who have children buy they are not married.
Do we really want to say gay marrige is OK only if the couple don’t have kids? It implies so in your interview.
Your augument with your personal experience and other gay couples’ children bad experience Is not convincing. Because it is individual cases. If you did a survey with 1000 children and drew the same conclusion, then that would be more convincing.
Also, there are plenty of families with mom and dad go down hill. Remember divorce rate is almost 50%. You fail to prove the superiority of traditional marrige.
I do not think Katy links SSM to children. Taking ownership of other peoples children is like past slave holders felt an LBGT “right”. LGBT links marriage to children. LBGT is the first group in all of human history that demands poverty stricken women are used as a source for eggs and that slave wombs are provided. It is a massive commercial industry of human trafficking. There is not a single same sex couple that can reproduce together so they are always predatory. And sorry people do have the right to literally buy and sell humans no matter what the divorce rate is. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/us/mississippi-ban-on-adoptions-same-sex-couples-challenged.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur
“LBGT is the first group in all of human history that demands poverty stricken women are used as a source for eggs and that slave wombs are provided.”
Really?? So explain why the first people to ever use surrogacy services and sperm donation were both fucking straight people. Explain why there are countries that ban gay couples surrogacy service, but permit straight couples. Explain that IMHO. I use to try to defend you but I’m quite tired of you spreading intentional misinformation that you cannot prove. Its dishonesty, and it is not right.
“You fail to prove the superiority of traditional marriage.”
Keep reading this blog and you will find the proof from many different angles! To my mind, ‘traditional marriage’ is so evidently superior I wonder how anyone could question it. all the best
Ok i will have a read.
Just like you I saw the article. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-13/katy-faust-ask-bigot-daughter-of-lesbians-gay-marriage-lateline/6694258 So I decided to follow up on who Katy is and it led here.
Unfortunately this is a dead end. Reading the article shows someone who seemed happy till they found religion and then became unhappy with the current situation. Someone who was convinced she would be happy with her father and mother together even if they were unhappy because that is the standard. But they split. Which raises the question of whether she would have been happier with her mother and a different man or living with her father with a different woman. Instead she lived with a mother with another woman. Religion unfortunately creates sadness to those who are happy and thus creates a false happiness to be desired. As it is said, people who know nothing are happy, people who know everything are sad.
Everyone thinks of the children but no one really cares for the children. The standard values of today are only around 200 years old. More or less since the industrial revolution. Before that the understanding of a family was quite different. Funny little argument though. I like the comment from IMHO “There is not a single same sex couple that can reproduce together so they are always predatory.” which only makes sense if you call same sex couple sex abusers. Yay for religion, unfortunately there are many who hid under the religious cloth who take advantage of those who should be protected, yes even those who claim a man and woman only shall bond.
So ultimately it comes down to this puzzle. Straight or gay, should a couple bring children, by natural means or adoption, into a loving house or an unloving house? This is the real question and it is not based on religion. This is 2015. Are we still talking about this?
You do not consider using women as breed animals predatory? No not at all abusive. What about slavery–you okay with that too? Not abusive. And human trafficking that’s good too. Not abusive. I am glad to see that you do not think women, children or minorities have any basic human rights. Yeah LGBT are predators. They take other peoples children and force those children to live without a mother or a father and to pretend. That is called entitlement–abusive in nature. We stopped thinking selling other people as a good idea last century and here comes LGBT to bring back slavery. Yep another sociopath–how rare in LGBT land.
“So ultimately it comes down to this puzzle. Straight or gay, should a couple bring children, by natural means or adoption, into a loving house or an unloving house?This is the real question and it is not based on religion. This is 2015. Are we still talking about this?”
It’s not a puzzle, nature determined millions of years ago that homo sapien males pair bond with unrelated females, and that bond results in offspring that inherit the traits of both biological parents, and that unit is called a family, which is the fundamental social unit that is the foundation for society. All these logical biological requirements ensure the fitness of the species, from the individual to the individuals society. That is, undeniably, the optimal system, as naturally, biologically evolved, that should be incentivized by society above all/any others.
If relatedness is so important to the parent that third party reproductive technology is mandated to provide related children to one parent, why isn’t it equally important that the child be genetically related to both parents? Isn’t that a conflict in logic? If giving life is another goal rationalized by proponents of artificial reproduction and parenting, why aren’t they intersecting women at abortion clinics to save the lives of those babies? Instead, they are rabid supporters of abortion – right up through birth, and decriers of overpopulation, while out of their ‘other’ faces they demand third party reproduction rights. Artificially creating babies to serve a minority population, straight or gay, commodifies children, at a minimum, for the sole purpose of selling/acquiring a genetically-related product to/for one person. You are indisputably violating the right of children to be created from and borne to the natural, biological opposite sex pair-bond (family) that has ensured the fitness of homo sapiens to date.
I haven’t seen the Bigot advance any religious argument against SS’M’- why are you maligning religions and believers? We all (even Atheists) get our morals and ethics, a critical element of the SS’M’ and ‘parenting’ issue, from some source, theists get theirs from their God, from who or what source do you derive your morals and ethics?
Fabian: Thanks for sharing this link! Katy’s clear answer on the question of “dignity” completely disarmed her interviewer.
I appreciate your assertion about a “loving home.” It is a fine starting place, a romantic ideal. But isn’t human love sometimes a beautiful, melancholy, imperfect striving? Isn’t it subjective by its very nature? Did Moira Greyland’s father believe he “loved her?”
Isn’t the human child’s “loving home” partly, even largely, in its own inner world? A world that unfolds through the gifts of its missing biological parents? What about the love of the child’s extended family– isn’t that missing from the home? What about the love of a thousand ancestors who struggled to push forward all the gifts that child carries? Isn’t the society that feeds, defends and sustains the child also a part of its “loving home?” What about stability of the parents? Doesn’t the bow have to shoot an arrow straight?
Adoption is a wonderful gift for many kids. We agree that striving for the idealistic “loving home” is an important starting point. But making a child need an adoption so that an adult can be the adoptive parent is another matter entirely. Do you also see a difference?
Where are you getting the idea that human values are only a “200-year-old” concept? Is that based on your religious beliefs?
You ask all good questions Minh. I have not seen the interview you cite but would like to find it on the Internet.
There are few adult children raised in same-sex households available/willing to study. Hypothetical 1,000 is a very big sample for that population. The volunteer subjects should be adults who are independent of parents’ direct influence. Study requires objective investigators. Limitations of survey approaches. The data-to-parameter ratio may be too low to draw any meaningful conclusions about whether outcomes were the result of parents’ sexual orientation, etc.
But aren’t you asking the question backwards? Male-male parenting without natural mother is not well established method. We would require the proponent of an experimental drug or other new treatment to do the convincing study before we would make it legal or subject unwilling children to it. Your question to Katy seems more like a drug company asking society to give license unless society can prove that the experimental new approach is NOT safe or efficacious. It should be the other way around I think.
I just saw your interview on ABC Lateline in Australia. I really appreciated your well articulated defence of children’s rights. You made some well founded and valid points. Keep up the good work.
Katy I do wonder why you’re focusing mainly on gay marriage in your fight for children’s rights? I thought ART was your cause? Gay marriage may increase the use of ART, but it won’t stop it. Heterosexuals use ART far more than homosexuals.
I saw you like my comment I made on my blog, and I would like to say thank you as a Christian for understanding the real problems here. Its really nice to see that you are able to be so open-minded, and see the different sides of this issue. Hopefully we will have minds like yours on both the liberal side, and conservative side 🙂
Keep being one awesome lady!
“I saw you like my comment I made on my blog, and I would like to say thank you as a Christian for understanding the real problems here. Its really nice to see that you are able to be so open-minded, and see the different sides of this issue.”
…..Well, unless you’re one of those Christians that believes in talking donkeys and snakes, or one of those Christians that disagrees with anything I incoherently blurt out….
Oh, I almost forgot, I claim to be on neither side of the ideological fence, but, I only attack those that I believe are those nasty Conservatives…..and/or SS’M’ opponents.
Let’s never forget, Dear Leader Obama was against SS marriage before he was for it. Now, that’s a fast-ass case of some biological evolution-
Lol. How cute. It’s like when angry little brats grumble under their breath when they know they are defeated 😆
Have no qualms with you believing in whatever you choose, but when you argue biblical logic and the ‘science’ against homosexuality same breath, that’s when someone separately needs to cut you down and remind you of your place. You can’t use science when its convenient for you to be a hateful mentally unstabled homophobic loudmouth, sweetie. That’s just makes you look like the inconsistent hypocrite you are. You don’t want your cover blown don’t you? Don’t you want the world to be slightly fooled that you aren’t mentally unstabled hopelessly bitter brute? 😆
Oh and you most certainly do take a side, dear, so I don’t know why you commented that stupid laughable lie. It’s almost as ridiculous as your misguided sense of intelligences You wouldn’t understand a rational middle grounded opinion, if your life depended on it.
It’s your loyalty to your cultie pals that has probably blinded you to the ridiculousness that is your argument. How 78% of the gay community do not have kids. How most of the people who use ART are straight couples. How domestic partnerships still grant couples the same parental rights they would have if they were married. Woops! That must’ve slipped your pathetic rants. And being forced to face these facts would undoubtably force you to admit that your issues are just the fact you can’t get over your gay husband who left you for another man.
Oh and why do you like Obama? I thought conservatives have life-size idols of Bush, they pray to every night.
How interesting of you! Lmao.
You’re too sweet, I could say the exact same about you! I probably wouldn’t post here anymore though. No one here seems capable of listening to or attempting to understand an opinion that doesn’t mirror their own. It’s all about posting studies and statistics to support their position. ALL studies are biased, you could find a study to “prove” just about anything. There’s no productive conversation going on, it’s a colossal waste of time. Some post here so frequently it leads me to believe they have no life outside this blog. Quite sad, really.
Also- You obviously know all gay parents aren’t sex-crazed monsters, so why would you post Moira’s story? It seems like you want people to think ALL gay parents are evil and predatory, when you know firsthand that’s not true. I want to believe you are genuinely concerned about children, but it almost seems that you are just using your concern for children as a “cover” to oppose gay marriage. At first I was completely convinced you were sincere, but now I’m not so sure.
Hi Epic. Thanks for reaching out amidst the craziness on the blog. There are about 10 of us with lgbt parents who are willing to speak up currently,Moira is one of the latest. We are all different, remarkably different, but we all see how legally normalizing ssm will harm children’s rights. Moira contacted me in March, and has been processing her life and childhood with me and the other COGs since then. She has never shared her story before, out of fear that she would get pulverized by the public and her mothers fans. My blog was a good place to start because I could delete the most aggressive responses.
Most gay parents are not sex-crazed monsters- you are right- as made clear by my post immediately prior to Moira’s as well as brandi’s just a few posts before. As well as Millie’s who has been speaking to members of the Australian parliament this week. http://youtu.be/FCrzKsrZ1eg
No ones childhood will perfectly resemble another’s, and we don’t need to oversimplify reality. Moira’s story is true, so is mine and Millie’s and Heathers and Brandis. We are all different, we even have significant disagreement in some areas, and that’s okay.
No, it wasn’t made clear by your previous posts. I think you should’ve prefaced the story by saying you were in no way saying that most gay parents were like Moira’s. Looking at this story from a gay person’s perspective, it would be incredibly hurtful. I’ve also learned that gays often adopt kids who are rejected by heterosexuals, so it’s entirely possible gay marriage will help many children in need of loving homes.
The ATB platform is about a woman raised by her fabulous lesbian parents whom she worships, publicly. That platform includes the woman’s own experience and the experience of multitudes of others, that children experience loss when one sex of the parental pair is missing or inaccessible for the long term due to same sex parenting. That’s what she knows, that’s her base of experience, that’s about what she writes and of which she speaks.
The facts are that we don’t know if LBGTQ, en masse, will make marvelous and better than perfect and superior to biological opposite sex parents because that claim is just a theory at this point.
The opposition to LBGTQ ‘marriage’ was redefining marriage to eventually mean anything, which will lead to it meaning nothing, before society had enough unbiased data, to make an informed decision about what the effects of that redefinition and weakening would mean to marriage, and ultimately to society.
So, in light of the truth, why would the Bigot reject the testimony of COGs that are contributing to the dialogue that should have been had prior to a radical element of the LBGTQ lobby (not all) shoving their demands on society by manipulating/distorting/bypassing legislation and law? Wouldn’t that be acting in conspiracy to bias contributions to or access to her blog? Isn’t everyone welcome to submit their experiences in SS households, good and bad, on this blog, and thousands of other blogs either pro or con? Have you sought or found a blog run by any happy, healthy COGs? If you and others claims are correct, there should be thousands of these well-adjusted and thriving COGs out there only too happy to share their experiences with the world to support their parents. Why haven’t you consulted with them? Why haven’t they shared their experiences here at ATB?
Is there any data to support the claim that LBGTQ adopt unwanted (disabled, etc.) children at a higher rate than do heterosexuals?
Debate participants need to learn how to process their ‘feelings’ like adults. “Feelings’ should not factor into decisions regarding the health of children, or society- these decisions need to be made by the citizens (not one heavily compromised member of SCOTUS) of that society by using logic. I dare to say that Christians have ‘feelings’, too, but that doesn’t seem to stop the endless vicious attacks, claims and intentional reputation killing by the radical LBGTQ lobby, here at ATB, and elsewhere. I have not seen any mainstream practicing Christians (eliminating self-claimed extremist elements) viciously attacking LBGTQ- they use their religious convictions or they use data to debate, or act (ex. amicus briefs), but, they never resort to vicious personal attacks and assault as does LBGTQ with the sole intention to cause actual harm to their opposition, as documented here, and elsewhere. While we are all free to disagree and civilly debate the issue, only LBGTQ have undertaken such targeted attacks against individuals whose only ‘crime’ was not jumping on their bandwagon. Do you contend that such behavior will provide a healthy environment for children?
It is appearing as though since SCOTUS granted this latest wish, sans any unbiased evidence (Kennedy’s decision was all fluff/emotion, no logic) to another minority element of society, all of society is at risk of suffering losses of their Constitutional rights, such as free speech and freedom of religion, minimally. Presently, we’re seeing the “Black Lives Matter” Soros funded anarchistic movement shut down free speech, while simultaneously informing US society that only “Black” lives matter while shutting down any retort that “All Lives Matter”. Perhaps, a page could be taken from them by the children’s advocates, “Kids Lives Matter”- thereby shutting out/down any dialogue by those opposing by promoting their own selfish ‘feelings’ over the health and happiness of kids?
You know, at first I really admired your knowledge and appreciated your input, but as you kept posting I lost all respect for you. If you are a child who has suffered as a result of being raised by abusive gays parents, my heart aches for you. I was also abused, and while I would never diminish your pain, I would caution you against assuming that all gays are abusive like your parents were. Also, if you are a COG, I would encourage you to present yourself calmly, sticking to the facts with less emotion. When you come across as mentally unstable it destroys your credibility. People are less likely to believe your story, they’ll write you off as being crazy.
COG’s do have a right to share their painful stories and be heard and validated, but Katy seems to be parading these people around on display to show the world how dangerous gays are to children and society. I bought it hook, line and sinker. Many others will too. Thankfully I took a step back and was able to see that while these stories were horrible, they were not at all the norm for COGs.
As you claim to support Katy and be a Christian, I would beseech you to watch your behavior and words. You are a reflection of Katy and also of Christ.
“You know, at first I really admired your knowledge and appreciated your input, but…”
But what? Did the biological argument against SS’M’ that you found logical and based in reality change? Or did you change because you let your ‘feelings’ about battles between me and the vicious SS’M’ advocates deteriorate into them accusing me of being someone else, a fraud and worse (as they accuse all opponents of SS’M’) because they disagreed with my position or my tactics (my tactics were far less threatening and defaming than theirs, that is a fact observable to all unbiased observers), which is to maintain my position and fight back (as I’ve said many times, I don’t follow the ‘turn the other cheek’ Christian mandate). If I get hit, I hit back, within reason (as in, I don’t threaten to take peoples children away from them). That’s real life. But, that is a reality that the SS’M’ advocates are unfamiliar with because all their battles, and defenses, boil down to one simple element- attacking Christians instead of defending their positions with facts.
Where did you get the idea that I am a Christian? I have never proclaimed my religion (from Atheist to Christian “fundamentalist) here or anywhere, that claim is as astroturfed’ as the ridiculous claims that I am multiple ‘other’ people. Do your support what was threatened to be done to some poor woman who had nothing to do with any disagreements or battles at ATB, while you criticize my ‘methods’?
I can certainly attribute the success of western civilization to the doctrine and philosophy of Judeo-Christianity without being either since that is a simple, undeniable fact.
You are permitting your ‘feelings’ to consume your logic, and override the truth. You need to provide evidence or proof of your claims that I committed fraud, bias, hatred, bigotry or threats against anyone. Every discourse between me and others is documented here at ATB. Don’t follow the empty logic of making baseless claims about others, do your own homework.
You will recall, perhaps, that you and I and many others here at ATB debated and dialogued without it deteriorating into what it did with just a few radicals.
Be careful who you befriend- the Bigot travelled down that same crooked road and was thoroughly punished for it (do you like what’s being done to her, do you approve of those tactics?) . SS’M’ opponents don’t have to seduce innocent ‘fence-sitters’ with their charms (feelings), we have the facts and logic on our side- the truth.
No data Jae. Over 98% of US families composed of adopted or step children are with heterosexual parents according to available census data.
But the number of families with adopted kids headed by same-sex parents has increased by more than 100% since the census of 2000.
Whether we acknowledge it or not, the USA is engaged in a rapidly expanding social experiment of placing unrelated children in same-sex households.
By the way, most adopted kids in the USA aren’t “rejected” by anyone. They lose parents to the forces of nature, tragedy, poverty, or human frailty.
“Rejection by heterosexuals, ” whatever that means, sounds like some sort of slogan or meme more than a driving force behind adoptions.
I just wanted to add that I do hope that you disable comments on your future posts. I was shocked that you allowed Jae and IMHO to continue posting after they were saying such vile and hateful things. There were others being ugly, but Jae and IMHO were your supporters so for you to not call them out made it seem as though you approved of their comments. If it were me, anyone who claimed to support me would be held to a higher level of behavior, because what they say and do are a direct reflection on me.
“Jae … to continue posting after they were saying such vile and hateful things. There were others being ugly, but Jae….so for you to not call them out made it seem as though you approved of their comments.”
Please cite the ‘vile and hateful” things said (date, time, thread) – in context.
I’m not sure how you have so much time, but I have a husband, kids, and a job. This is not a fruitful discussion and I have no wish to engage with you this way.
“I’m not sure how you have so much time, but I have a husband, kids, and a job. This is not a fruitful discussion and I have no wish to engage with you this way.”
Then, why did you engage me ‘this way”? I made no accusations against you- why did you make them against me? Am I not permitted to defend myself?
How do you know ‘how much time” I have? You seem to have made many, many erroneous assumptions and accepted many, many unfounded claims about me- on what evidence or proof do you base your conclusions about me- on what others claim?
You clearly missed the known facts about me, let me clear that up for you and others: I am “Jae” and I use the biological argument against SS’M’ to support and defend my position here at ATB. That is all anybody here knows about me because that is all the information I have shared about me here at ATB. Every other claim being made about me is nothing more than others unfounded claim, or wishes. To some I am many ‘guys’ who post on the Facebook, to others I am some woman whose husband reportedly left her for a man, and who is now being threatened with losing her children.
So, since you decided to engage me ‘this way’, and I have responded with facts, you are free to not engage me ‘this way’ and return to engaging the biological argument against SS’M’, or not. You also have/had the ability to have private conversations with the Bigot I that was your aim, as well, so if you submit a public post/comment to ATB- they are fair game to all others, whether you decide to ‘engage’ or not.
While you’re trying to decipher the difference between truth from non-truths, remember this – SS’M’ opponents didn’t/don’t seek out SS’M’ advocates at their blogs to attack, assault, harass or threaten them- do they? That fact should be a clue for you as to the intent of some bloggers, or blog contributors.
O’B- thanks for the adoption stats.
It’s refreshing to have the typical unfounded/baseless muck (claims) cleared out of the ‘dialogue’ here, periodically.
But Katy, I read Moira’s stance, and her parents were in a heterosexual relationship. That was the exact type of household you yourself advocated if gays were to have children. So why would it make sense for you to support Moira’s opposition to same-sex parenting, on the idea that gays are part of a conspiracy make sexually abusing children socially acceptable, when it has nothing to do with your original argument?
I understand that the COG community is at its infancy, and therefore has only a handful of members, but I would argue that the quality of the voices is much stronger than the quantity. If all of you come from a background of being abused and mistreated by your gay parents, people will blame your opposition to marriage equality with your emotional hatred towards your abusive gay parents. And you will NEVER be heard. Your intelligent critiques will be stigmatized as bigotry, and will go down the drain with you.
Moira needs support, love, and someone to accept her and hear her out, but there is also the need to understand that her stance and reasoning to being against marriage equality is not reasonable but geared by the emotions of someone who had been mentally and sexually abused.
Supporting her voice, would be saying that you agree with her stance. That is going to hurt you and make people think you’re being dishonest and inconsistent.
Miss AO: Why would experiences of a victim of sexual assault and rape like Moira have to be censored? Why would her first-hand testimony be disclaimed as “not reasonable” simply because she was the victim? Wouldn’t that completely turn our entire system of justice on its head?
It’s as if you’re expecting that reasonable gay people will identify de facto with these horrible abusers of Moira simply because they’re homosexual? Isn’t that just a form of soft bigotry AO? It’s like when that PhD psychologist kept trying to push the argument that casual observations of same-sex behavior in wild animals tells us anything about human homosexuality. It may be a well-intentioned attempt to advocate for gay people but it comes across as stereotyping, or even degrading.
No well-adjusted homosexual person is going to listen to Moira’s story and identify with her abusers. Many are going to identify with her as a victim and ask exactly the same questions about how and why this happened in their own community as heterosexual people are asking.
I understand the outrage some will feel about her views on same sex parenting but Moira’s the first-hand survivor and we haven’t walked in her shoes.
I respect you AO. But this post looks like just piling on trying to make Katy feel bad for allowing a real victim to have a platform on her blog? I think K has stated at least three times that her own experiences with same-sex parenting were completely different and unique.
Many of us found Moira’s story to be powerful and moving. It had little to do with the sexuality of her abusers and everything to do with Moira’s human courage and resilience.
“Why would experiences of a victim of sexual assault and rape like Moira have to be censored? Why would her first-hand testimony be disclaimed as “not reasonable” simply because she was the victim?”
I don’t appreciate it when other people twist my words. My issue was not that Moira came public about her story, my issue was that she said that the reason she is against gay marriage is because it will lead to social acceptance towards child molestation, and that gay people themselves are part of a conspiracy to make raping children socially acceptable. That is classic homophobic argument, and a disgusting conclusion.
Her testimony against same-sex marriage is not reasonable for three things, and it has nothing to do with being the victim:
1) She was never raised by same-sex parents, she was raised by a bisexual man who married a bisexual woman
2) She was never split contact from her biological father, through means of donor-conception or surrogacy
3) Her situation was not the result and would not have been affected by the same sex marriage legislation. As she has proven gays will have children regardless of if they’re allowed to get married or not. Her story actually contradicts with both Katy and other COGs have advocated
“It’s as if you’re expecting that reasonable gay people will identify de facto with these horrible abusers of Moira simply because they’re homosexual? Isn’t that just a form of soft bigotry AO?”
Please do not twist my words, you are starting to make me angry. I did not say that gay people will identify with abusers, I said that Moira was suggesting that other gay parents and the entire LGTB movement is moving to make sexually molesting children socially acceptable. If anything SHE herself, Moira identifies all gay people with abusers.
Why on God’s Green Earth, would you have twist my words up and the argument around to make me look like the homophobe, while defending someone who is against gay marriage because she thinks that gays are pedophiles?
It comes across as manipulative and conniving behavior. We all know how you feel about gay people and that you aren’t looking for their best interest, just you’re trying to please a religious-based political agenda. So why even play that card, and pretend you actual care?
And yes, as someone who would want the best for the Children’s Rights movement, I feel I should absolutely tell Katy how she’s coming across to others and how this isn’t and will never be good for her. Already the only support she is getting is from conservatives, no gay person, or liberal has commented in praise for what she has said, done, or defends. So what progress is she making, defiling her reputation, and losing both in Ireland and in the US? Perhaps listening to her liberal followers would do her some good.
OK Miss AO. If Moira’s story was verbatim the same except her abusers weren’t homosexuals but rather two heterosexual men, then would you still be criticizing ATB the same way for giving her a platform? Or would you still call the victim’s reaction “unreasonable?”
And would you expect all heterosexual men in the audience to become personally offended, outraged or otherwise claim the victim was a “man-hater” or whatever the equivalent is to your pejorative of “homophobic?”
I’m trying to understand your critcisms AO. I keep reading these monolithic stereotypes of what it is to be LGBT pop up in the blog, and they come almost as frequently from the people claiming to support SSM as from the people opposed to SSM.
You’re not a idiot, O’Boyle, you understand my criticism quite well.
f Moira’s story was verbatim the same except her abusers weren’t homosexuals but rather two heterosexual men,then would you still be criticizing ATB the same way for giving her a platform?
No because her stance would still be completely ridiculous and have no relation to marriage equality.
And would you expect all heterosexual men in the audience to become personally offended, outraged or otherwise claim the victim was a “man-hater” or whatever the equivalent is to your pejorative of “homophobic?”
Not unless of course, Moira was stating something as offensive as saying that all heterosexual men are evil rapists who are part of a conspiracy to make sexually molesting little girls publicly acceptable, therefore, they have no right to marry women, and they should never be parents to children. But you see,no victim of heterosexual child abuse has said such thing.
Why are pretending to be such a clueless idiot? Why are you twisting the critiques I’m making and using straw-mans? You understand my critique quite well, its written in plain English.
Thanks Miss AO. Shall I answer your plurimum interrogationum about “clueless idiot?”
I think victims of sexual assault and rape, whether homosexual or heterosexual perpetrator, sometimes do view the perp precisely as your somewhat mocking hypothetical extreme portrays. Nevertheless, they are still entitled to voice their first-hand experiences and to be given a platform like ATB to speak. So is Moira.
I also think most adult ATB readers (homosexual and heterosexual) understand that a victim does not necessarily see her abusers the same “reasonable” way that one may like them to in support of a particular SSM political position. Or use the exact wording that might satisfy all sides of a political debate. Moira acknowledged that in her post.
From your many earlier posts, I thought you might agree with me on that viewpoint? Your personal criticisms of Katy for giving Moira an opportunity to speak, therefore, surprised me.
The internet is not the best way to communicate and I take responsibility if we did not connect on the dialog. But AO, it does not have to be part of a vast Christian, “homophobic” conspiracy. It can just be a different viewpoint or understanding than your own. Peace.
This place is for attacking ideas, you are creating shit ideas, thus you should be under attack. You wana know why any one opposing gay marriage is labeled a bigot? because they are. Take your daddy issues and fuck off, you dont belong on this earth.
Circulus in probando
Now, there’s some of that ‘love’, ‘tolerance’ and ‘compassion’ we keep on hearing about coming out of the radical LBGTQ SS’M’ advocacy.
Those little kiddies just don’t know how lucky they are to have Daddy-less or Mommy-less ‘loving parents’.
How loving. More Great parent material.
Hi Katy, my name is Hayley and I study journalism at the Queensland University of Technology. Our latest topic for a news feature article is same-sex marriage, and I have chosen to explore the topic of children of same-sex partners. I was wondering if it was at all possible to ask a few questions via e-mail that I can use as material in my piece. Thank you for your time
Watched the interview with you on Tuesday night. So very impressed with your well mannered confident responses that were measured and said with love. I don’t usually comment on anything, but I managed to work out how to follow you and contact you on your blog and I felt it was my responsibility to encourage you on your journey and wish you God’s blessings in the paths you walk. He has truly blessed you with a gift of public speaking and you are using these gifts to His glory. Thank you!
It’s funny – I think I have traveled the same path as you… just in the opposite direction. I was born to loving heterosexual parents, my father a pastor. Both great people, and I love them enormously.
Having now worked as a Chaplain at my local school for 8 years, I can’t wait for gay marriage to become law in Australia.
God created people gay, we need to celebrate them as equal.
That being said, obviously you have an important contribution to be made to this discussion!
“God created people gay, we need to celebrate them as equal.”
God created all people, that doesn’t mean that society should be forced to incentivize all of their behaviors.
Replace ‘gay’ with all other known human behaviors and then tell us that society should incentivize all of them to serve the “equality” god.
Then, tell us what other naturally-evolved human institutions that serve/support the social structure that is the foundation for western civilization (the natural, traditional family) should be redefined to accommodate those behaviors.
At least, you are civil in your opposition to SS’M’ opponents. How rare, how refreshing!
There is no biological argument coming from someone who believes in talking donkeys and snakes.