The translation of our letter that ran today in Tempi:
Dear Dolce and Gabbana,
Greetings from the United States. The six signers of this letter were all raised by gay and lesbian parents. Five of us are women and one is a queer man, though we all raised our children with their opposite-sex parents. We want to thank you for giving voice to something that we learned by experience: Every human being has a mother and a father, and to cut either from a child’s life is to rob the child of dignity, humanity, and equality.
We know that gay parents can be loving, since we loved our parents and they loved us. Nonetheless, we have all had firsthand experience with the harsh backlash that follows when the dominant view of “gay parenting” as universally positive is questioned. We know that you will come under tremendous pressure, especially now when both Italy and the United States are being pushed to override our concerns for our rights to a mom and dad, in order to please a powerful gay lobby.
Nobody receives more vicious attacks from the lobby than those who come from the gay community and question its policies: children of gay couples just as much as the gay men who defend them (like the two of you). In all likelihood many in the international community will try to get your shows cancelled, your advertisements censored, and your reputation destroyed online. You have shown yourselves to be extremely brave. You have given us great inspiration as all six of us prepare to submit letters to the US Supreme Court against gay marriage.
We want to praise your courage and thank you for your inspiration. We also implore you not to surrender when the backlash grows in intensity. If you back down from what you said and apologize, it will leave the children of gay homes even more vulnerable and discredited. It is important for our sake, for the sake of Italian children as well, that you not apologize or capitulate. Please support the idea that all children need to be bonded with their mothers and fathers. It is a human right.
If we can help you in any way, please, let us know. We are not all Christian but we want to send you our blessings, and we promise that we will be lifelong buyers of Dolce and Gabbana from now on.
Heather Barwick, contributor to Federalist
Rivka Edelman, co-author of Jephthah’s Daughters: Innocent Casualties in the War for Family Equality
Katy Faust, writer at asktheBigot
Robert Oscar Lopez, co-author of Jephthah’s Daughters: Innocent Casualties in the War for Family Equality
Denise Shick, author of My Daddy’s Secret
Dawn Stefanowicz, author of Fuori Dal Buio: La Mia Vita Con Un Padre Gay
This letter is in response to Dolce& Gabbana statement that “The only family is the traditional one.” “The family is not a fad,” Gabbana told the interviewer. “In it there is a supernatural sense of belonging.” Procreation “must be an act of love.” Children born through artificial insemination or egg donors are “children of chemistry, synthetic children. Uteruses for rent, semen chosen from a catalog,” Dolce said.
I cannot imagine why these two men would invite such wrath, except that they see the injustice done to children when they are denied one of their parents, and they can’t sit silently by while it is celebrated.
311 thoughts on “Dear Dolce & Gabbana- a letter of support from children of gays and lesbians”
I’ve never purchased Dolce & Gabbana clothing but I plan to start. Thank you, gentlemen, for your courageous statements!
I agree! Though I will have to get my D&G at Goodwill. 😉
That’s a good one.. and thank you. No support is more powerful than the one from the victims themselves.
lol same ……
I never have and probably never will purchase D&G…. nevertheless its high time someone from the gay community voices what the minority in the gay community truly believe..!!! high time, as a gay, i am fed up with the over the top media coverage of gay marriage, and its pro proud “stuff”. Its a cover,, there are many gays out there that voice the same opinions as D&G but are pressured to shut up. I know, i have been abused by my fellow gays for my similar views. This will open a can of worms… but unfortunately the wheel of “pro proud” has been generated and will be impossible to stop.. to stop all forms of manipulation and corruption, corruption in all its forms..!!
I, for one, always turn to gay fashion designers for their personal opinions on parenting — especially when they themselves aren’t even parents.
Considering that they condemned straight and gay people that have used IVF to help them become parents, I’m not sure they deserve the accolades that you’re bestowing on them.
“Please support the idea that all children need to be bonded with their mothers and fathers. It is a human right.”
So advocating for bans on divorce, or being able to give your children up for adoption should be enshrined into law. Anything less would be hypocritical.
Except divorce does not use women as reproductive slaves or create synthetic kids. Most kids of divorce are not denied a connection with a mother or a father in order to serve an the adults You are correct it creates many problems for children.
You’re really okay with labeling an entire group of actual, living children as “synthetic”?
Synthetic refers to the matter they were conceived. IVF is a horrible, destructive process wherein several embryos are created and destroyed in an attempt to get one viable fetus.
Of COURSE it is not the children’s fault, if I really need to say that. But this destructive and selfish practice of IVF needs to be condemned, and the time to be polite about it is over.
That’s not what D&G said, and based on IMHO’s reply to me, that’s not what this commenter is saying.
Not all IVFs require the destruction of embryos. Some people do genetic testing before the blastocyst are placed back in the uterus. Others don’t and use all the blastocysts they have.
I would agree. People like you and your comments are the reason your side will eventually lose. Call it what you like, you might even be right on some points, but no one wants to hear hatred.
Yes I am okay with calling them synthetic and plastic and I would say it to their parents face. They are for profit lab creations –You want to live in Orwell land–fine that is your choice. I am not into “good speak” it is untrue and dangerous. Is it telling that you find a label very very very mean and bad and you are okay with women being used as reproductive slaves and people buying children –calling them synthetic is nothing compared to what “their parents” and their parents supporters have done to them. Their parents are depending on people to carry their lie–people that do are the ones that damage those kids.
No one is being used as a “reproductive slave,” and your attitude toward these children is a good example of why your side keeps losing this fight. Few want to be associated with someone who would have such an abusive disregard for a living, breathing child.
Dolce and Gabbana should have be given a humanitarian award. They spoke up for women and children for mothers. They are synthetic–created in a glass dish and paid for. How very very sad for them. I did not take their mother away from them. That monstrous act belongs to men like Elton John. He bought children–that’s not a family or parenthood and I for one am not playing along with the good speak. I was raised in a same sex family and I would not wish it on anyone. It is a violation of children’s’ human rights. And is closer to slavery and human trafficking. It is soaked in misogyny–not at all complicated. Why do you think all the 3rd world is has said no to Gay men having women forcibly impregnated and kept against their will in “compounds” Breeding Camps–like concentration camps–
I’m glad that Elton John opened his disgusting mouth because their is no white washing this sir–none. If those of us who were raised by LBGT parents are calling it abhorrent I would suspect that the average person will listen sooner or later.
As for the popularity–think of other movements that have gone up like comets over short periods of time–they come down like sticks. It cost a lot of money to create. It will cost more to maintain and the charm and interest is wearing thin already. Elton John and his hair plugs will look better in a few years once these kids realize how they have been used. I know I was one of them. In fact it was my idea to write to Dolce and Gabbana–LBGT will be seen as the a group behind human rights violations. Good Luck with that.
you do know they say that about themsevles right ?
Have you listened to the storied of DC kids ? You must not have a heart at all. They are frightened to tell anyone and dying on the inside because they love their parents..
Look, I am still for gay marriage and parenting. A lot of the arguments ignore the variables and the realities; the unhappiness that can come from an unstable family unit, and this could be gay or straight. Would Heather have been happier if her mother had stayed? Would he have been a good parent? We will never know. I am sorry but I feel her story actually has the opposite effect to what she intended
I think that you can expect some children of gay celebrities to bring a counter arguement. In the mean-time have some sensitivity when referring to IVF children; a lot of the arguments are quite phobic (search ‘I am not a racist but’).
A child in a happy and stable family is their right
Love how you homosexualist trolls manage to turn a conversation into a bullshite campaign. No one is attacking people or children conceived through IVF. No one is comparing the ‘stability’ or otherwise of different types of families. The critique focuses on adults using laboratory techniques as a means to derive something from other people which otherwise they could not have. What is it to be – children’s right to grow up with their biological parents, or fabricated adult ‘rights’ which separate children from their biological parents? Dolce and Gabbana acknowledge the fact that they benefited from growing up with their biologically-intact families, and want to ensure that all children have the same experience. Elton, his lover and homosexualist trolls like we see on this thread believe that adults should have a ‘right’ to buy children and thus deprive them of their biological dads and mums. How ‘evolved’, indeed!
Criticizing the source instead of the argument is a tu quoque fallacy. It does not matter what age, gender, or sexual orientation these men are. Their comments are just as true as they would be if any straight couple uttered them,
Criticizing the source rather than the argument is the ad hominem fallacy. Tu quoque is when one says, “What I’m doing is okay because you do it too”
I phrased my comment poorly. David, indeed, used the tu quoque fallacy. And I will demonstrate:
“I, for one, always turn to gay fashion designers for their personal opinions on parenting — especially when they themselves aren’t even parents.”
David is arguing that Dolce & Gabbana cannot have an opinion on parenting because they are not parents. However, their comments about parenting are valid, and their inability to conceive has no bearing on its truth.
You mean ad hominem, then.
Of course they are entitled to their opinion — just like I am. I’m just saying that some opinions obviously carry more weight than others. Does it really need to be said that the following organizations have a better grasp on gay parenting than Dolce and Gabbana: American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, American Academy of Family Physicians, American Academy of Pediatrics, American Bar Association, American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychoanalytic Association, American Psychological Association, Child Welfare League of America, National Adoption Center, National Association of Social Workers, North American Council on Adoptable Children, Voice for Adoption.
So, no, I wouldn’t put too much weight in the opinion of a couple of fashion designers compared to any of the organizations listed above.
Do any of the organizations on that list give their support for the creation of children through sperm donation or pregnancy surrogates, which was what D&G were speaking out against?
What they do support is adoption of children by same-sex couples under some circumstances.
And D&G are experts on “fashion” and even that is questionable. At least those listed organizations have something to do with children, families and psychology.
I support it too under some circumstances–like if there was a nuclear war and there was a baby and the only two people left on the planet were a gay couple–yeah then it would okay.
Trust me, these organizations have taken political stances on the subject, driven by decades of homosexualist insider activism and external pressure. After all, they are not so much ‘expert’ organizations, as they are interest groups. Certainly, their current stance is not evidence-based, nor is it representative of many of their members. Unfortunately for them, the evidence that they are wrong on this issue is mounting, and they will eventually need to succumb to reality if they are to retain credibility. The APA has already had to ‘amend’ its position on the inherentability of homosexuality. In other words, it as much as admitted being wrong because there is no evidence that a person can be born a sodomite or a dyke. Of course, the previous stance was developed by a ‘committee’ which was almost entirely composed of so-called ‘gay and lesbian’ members of the association.
In answer to david0296 from March 16, 2015 at 1054 pm
How many of these organizations you mention have either drummed out those with different opinions, or have members who are ‘in the closet’ on this issue in order to survive?
HRC- isn’t that the same org that has a pedophile as their former leader?
Clarification He is a pederast not a pedophile. And yes Terry Bean, was one of the founders of the HRC and he is in thick with President Obama.
Not to criticize but he is actually a ephebophile the boys were between 15-19
Divorce and adoption are remedies that the law provides for extreme circumstances. Neither can go forward without a judicial finding.
Excellent Steve. Exactly.
“especially when they themselves aren’t even parents.”
They were the children of parents, in a home with a mother and a father. Viva tradition.
“enshrined into law”
They have not suggested that homosexual families be prevented by law so how is it hypocritical to not demand that divorces are banned by law?
What of single parent households? What of adoption? A child placed by their mother for adoption by two people of the same sex?
IVF and Adoption are INTENTIONAL parenting, not something that happens by accident or isn’t wanted. These people want a family, and are all trying their best. Straight AND gay.
Oh by “accident” you mean from sex–oh the horror. Pro-tip Accidental is not unloved. Heterosexual sex is life giving we accept that. That is what makes it powerful in the psyche, that is why all the world religions honor it–it creates life. Even rape creates life. Same sex is not that way– And buying a kid from the 3rd world is not love. They want–that is the problem. They “want” so what. Children have the human right to a mother and a father–what two adults want is great for a new car. That is why every day more and kids are coming forward and saying no. You just don’t get it Sal–Other peoples children are not a right for rich people. That is slavery not family.
they “want”. See, your argument here is basically eating itself. You’re saying that children have the human right to have a mother and a father or parental figures (for the sake of argument), but you are willing to deny certain children that right because their parents have the same gender? Before you distort this, think about the millions of children who are unwantedly conceived every year, those who are aborted, and those who are forced to be born from abusive parents. But hey, it’s okay if a child’s parents force him/her into prostitution at the age of 3 as long as he/her has a mom and dad, and not homosexual parents who would actually give him/her a very dignified life, right?
Also, nobody is buying a kid from the 3rd world. Unless you can actually back-up your claim with an instance in the 21st century through research study or otherwise, where it is public knowledge that homosexual couples actually BUY children from Global South (this is the correct term for 3rd world) countries, all you are actually preaching is idiocy. While I understand that yes sex creates life, even rape may indeed create life, do you think it is a life that some children may deserve?
Can you honestly tell anybody that a child born into a family whose parents are deemed unfit to raise their children in proper, dignified, and humane ways deserve to be ill treated more than being adopted by a well functioning homosexual family? Because all you are saying is that a child deserves to have a set of parents only as long as they are straight, and it does not matter whether or not they are unfit to actually sustain that person.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Their logic is sheer ridiculousness, honestly!
You too are a Snarky Prick! Who says that gay couples are fit or unfit? I don’t have the statistics on well functioning homosexual families nor well functioning heterosexual families for that matter; but will bet the distribution of those who are and those who are not so well functioning to be similar. Besides the true story here is the recognition that creation is something greater than the birth, and any deviation from it will leave a whole in an individual. For the record, so does Rape, forced prostitution, Neglect, the list goes on. So let’s listen to these folks and in particular those with first hand knowledge especially given they are speaking with such kindness in their intentions and conversations. If all you can hurl is nastiness then please take it to the bathroom.
Want an example of a sodomite couple buying a child from abroad, then abusing and prostituting him? Here is one: http://rt.com/news/pedophile-syndicate-russian-boy-481/
The idiocy is plain only in statements like yours: “Because all you are saying is that a child deserves to have a set of parents only as long as they are straight, and it does not matter whether or not they are unfit to actually sustain that person”.
Actually, a child is entitled to know and grow up with his or her biological parents. The argument that (a) because some children are abused or abandoned by their biological parents means that (b) sodomite or dyke parents should be entitled to buy children is a bizarre one. The two are not in the least logically related. A child is entitled to grow up in their biological family, and to be safe and protected from harm. Yes, some children do not get this. However, this does not automatically mean that we can go about allowing a free for all market for children.
You create a false situation. It is not a choice “a loving gay couple and the terrible abusive junkie whore mother or sold into prostitution or whatever else you think up to try to deflect from the massive human right violations that gay men commit against women and children–sure make them into heroes. That is a fantasy in your head to cover up what feminists and adult children of LBGT know. Gay men are predators they poach women for breeding and buy humans. That is human trafficking. I do not care if the are straight–you said that not me. I said a child has a basic human right to a mother and a father. Straight is of no importance. You should look up the breeding compounds that have been closed down in Thailand the ones that forcibly impregnated women and held them captive. They served mostly gay men. Read the feminist J Bindel. I would say that if one did a tally Western Gay men in the last 3 years have committed the highest rate of human rights violations against women and children through reproductive slavery and baby sales–1000s of infants and women–not a few died. But you keep pretending that it all about social justice.
So, your argument is this: “Some people adopt and there are single parent families. Ergo, straight, sodomite and dyke couples (soon thruples etc as well?) should also be allowed to deprive children of their biological parents, whenever they ‘want’ a ‘family'” Nice reasoning.
lets here what the victims have to say about your assertion……..
No one who was created from donor conception was ever wanted
I’ll repeat, no one who was ever created from donor sperm or egg or embryo was ever wanted. It’s an illusion impressed on us, so we will shut up and not question how we came into the world.
No woman would ever choose to have a child with a stranger, before her own husband. No woman. The child is a biological certificate of their marriage, how two halves made a whole. This is why couples with infertility will go through intensive drug therapies, and expensive IVF cycles to create their own child, and when such technologies fail them, they turn to gamete-prostitution as a means of last resort.
Same sex couples are no different either. Similar to infertile people, they want their own human certificate of their ‘union’, but cannot accept the fact that they aren’t biological equals to heterosexuals and were never naturally intended to procreate. This is why same sex couples will seek out their brothers and sisters to ‘donate’ a gamete so they can pretend that they had both reproduced the child.
The child’s existence was a means of absolute last resorts. Make no mistake, if technologies existed where same-sex couples and infertile couples could manufacture their own genetic children, in laboratories, us DC children would never exist.
Biology has always been extremely important to the recipients of donned eggs and sperm. Its simply because they are not capable to join the party and have their own children that they pretend that genetics doesn’t matter. They choose to ignore all of the money they wasted on reproductive technology so they can produce their own biological children, they choose to forget that adopting the millions of needy non-biological children in foster care and group homes, was never their first choices, even after coming to terms about their reproductive illnesses. They choose to ignore these realities because when they pretend that genes do not matter, they’ll be revealed as the hypocrites they are.
Take it from me, I was the child of a loving mother and infertile father, who were eventually able to have their own. And when they did have their own, I was treated like the secondhand toy no one really wanted but settled with. My social father began to fade on me, feeling he wasn’t entitled to love me. When the divorce came, he felt he wasn’t entitled to pay for me either. He had his ‘real’ kid now, so he no longer had to pretend that I was his.
Cryo children in these selfish arrangements are made to conform and play along with their caregivers’ delusions and fantasies just to make these childish adults live out their American Dream. The child is made to call aunts, uncles, strangers, ‘mom’, ‘dad’ or whatever their intended parents want them to, because the reality is, children are not counted as human beings on this world, they’re property rights to whoever buys their custody.
We know they’re not true human beings, because of the drop-off boxes they have in Europe for unwanted babies, or how pro-feticide women only validate the lives of fetuses who are wanted, or how lesbians can sue sperm-selling companies when their children come out the wrong color, or how couples can demand a refund on all the money they spent on their children as parents from IVF clinics when they discover their children were a company mix up, and they aren’t raising the child they paid for. Or how women are now aborting their sentient unborn children, when discovering they have harmless fixable cosmetic blemishes like a cleft pallet.
No human would ever be treated with this level of disrespect, like an object whose existence can be at the whims of online shopping, and button-clicking. Whose father was chosen because he looks like a TV celebrity and this amused the buying intended ‘parents’.
No human being would ever be alive through money, or the charity donation of a complete stranger who wanted to make a lesbian couple happy. No one gives away their daughters to strangers to make singled men happy, so why doesn’t that logic apply to children? Why do we think that creating children with someone we barely (if at all) know, and abandoning these children as something noble because it made the intended ‘parents’ happy? It’s insanity.
Date submitted: March 05, 2015
Very well said, sir. It is pure selfishness.
Does it say Sal or Salvatore? We aren’t friends, so please don’t address me as if we are.
No one said anything about “buying a kid from the 3rd world.” Have you heard of the United States? There are adoptions happening right here, in the U.S. And some are Open Adoptions. This is where the birth parents, often times just the Birthmother, place the child for Adoption with a person or person(s) of their choosing. And, often times, with two people of the same sex.
IVF is something that is very costly. So is international adoption. Domestic adoption…not so much. Especially when done thru the County system. Please don’t speak of that which you, clearly, know very little, maybe even nothing, about.
What’s that logic–I’m rubber you’re glue. That’s so convincing. Good god how long to imagine till people get really tiered and realized? It is never in fashion to be creepy. You have no case against D and G only lies and threats–people are speaking out.
There are only about 100,000 children in the US available for adoption. Does the truth offend, is it pearl clutching, shocking, bigoted, meany. IVF sir, they going to implant that embryo where sir–you have a secrete compartment someplace? No I did not think so. You do not get weigh in on mens rights to abuse women–sorry that train left the station. Gay men are a billion dollar industry and they prey on poor women. How the hell dare you. All children deserve a mother and a father and you advocate for reproductive slavery–that’s not “adoption” LBGT is committing human rights violations–yeah some social justice. Clearly you lie like most people breath.
what percentage is often times ?
Just because adoption is open doesn’t that people and agencies and courts who must approve and file these papers do not look to see whom and how a child is being adopted. The best chance for that child is still a adoptive mother and father. Not a single parent not two guys or two women.
In fact except in cases of homosexuals babies (infants less than 1 ) are not given to heterosexual couples above 40. This discrimination is political and directly harms the child.
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Very succinct, well-written, reasonably balanced and sensible letter. Thank you. If I could add my name, I would. As it is, I can click “like” and then share this missive with friends and family. Blessings to each of you!
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And here are the people supporting dear Dolce & Gabbana. Some of the most vile, poisonous, dangerous anti -lgbt activists out there like Robert Oscar Lopez and Katy Faust.
People who project the issues they had while growing up on every child with same-sex parents, people trying to insert their vile rhetoric to the every day life of families led by same sex couples in the most deceiving way.
People who confess here they will file a brief to the supreme court further demeaning same sex couples, lgbt people and their families.
People who instead of asking the help of a psychologist to overcome their issues, they are using this issues to attack every family that does not conform to their world view, something that will never heal their wounds.
But even if they take every child away from its loving same-sex parents,even if they bar same sex couples from marriage or any other basic civil right, they will never be happy, even if gay people are wiped off the face of earth, even if all the children of same sex couples get together and shout to them “stop attacking us and our parents!” and you know why ? Because you will still carry yourselves and your issues that lead you to such actions.
Your brief will be futile. The supreme court will do what’s constitutional and what’s right and you cannot stop that.
And stop playing the vile victim card every time gay people stand up for their dignity and to protect their families. You are not the victims, you are the prosecutors of all those same sex couples and their children.
That’s the new clientele you have D&G. Extreme right wing who make a party over your self loathing and ignorant attack on so many families. The real perpertrators of every crime against LGBT people and their families. That’s the people you thank, that’s the people you give exposure to through your instagram account.
We won’t stay silent, we won’t back down. All fair minded people should come together and form a chain of love around same sex couples and their children who they raise beautifully.
Once the Supreme Court does the right thing in June, it is obvious the fight won’t be over.
Every day same sex couples and their children will have to fight to be heard, to fight to defend themselves from the unholy alliance of sel loathing gay men from a homophobic country who speak in the luxury of their wealth and people like the ones signing this letter, deeply disturbed people projecting their personal issues on the MILLIONS of children with same sex parents.
This is a battle you will lose. Enjoy writing your homophobic brief. It won’t change the court’s determination to be on the right side of history, the constitution and civil rights.
I’m with you.
I never have and never will understand what civil rights of those who label themselves as LGBT are being denied. Every adult person has the right to marry, no matter what position you hold in life. It’s just you cannot marry a dog, or a child, or the dining room table, or someone of the same sex, but we all live under those parameters. We always have. And if you desire to be officially hooked up with your pencil, you have plenty of contractual and legal remedies in order to do so.
Got to love the illogical and historically illiterate arguments of the (shrinking minority of) opponents of marriage equality.
Before the supreme court of the united states decided on the case of Loving v. Virginia that the laws banning interracial marriage were unconstitutional no one was denied any right either under your interpretation of “rights” : every person had the right to marry another person of the same race. Correct ? No one was treated as “priviliged”. Correct ? I am just using your logic here as applied to another historic case.
I doubt you are smart enough to point out the unconstitutional aspects of the laws stuck down in loving and the laws who will most likely be struck down in the cases before the supreme court right. I would advise you though to read the very interesting amicus brief in support of plaintiffs filed by the Cato Institute and the co-founder of the federalist society on an originalist approach on the constitutionality of marriage equality.
In a few words currently same sex couples are denied the right to marry under laws that do not promote any substantial governmental interest and impose an undue burden on couples similarly situated with opposite sex couples who enjoy that right.
Under the 14th amendment’s equal protection and due process clause such laws that do not further a legitimate governmental interest and burden a minority (plus the children of those same sex couples) are unconstitutional.
Since neither children nor dogs nor tables can give consent much less sign a license, like a marriage license, the slippery slopes you describe are about not similarly situated individuals with the same sex couples who have either won the right to marry (with more than 60 pro-equality decisions issued since December 2013 across the country and from judges accross the ideological spectrum) or are challenging it before the supreme court right now.
See why you lose the legal battle ? You and your ilk has failed again and again to make any sense either on an argument online or while arguing before a court.
The ‘legal’ battle may be hijacked by ideologues (and others bullied into submission), but, the natural law battle will never be. Sooner or later, nature corrects for the mistakes of Man. The difference between your side and the other side is that your legal ‘win’, however grand will be temporary, yet, will cause harm to children, and a good society. Time is the true measure of Man’s follies.
Your side fights the selfish battle. And selfishness, expressed evolutionarily, is thoroughly unproductive (unfit)- it is simply a dead end.
The natural law battle has been won for our side since the beginning of time with the diversity nature offers in every aspect, including sexual orientation. I am sorry you do not like it.
The constitutional battle will soon be won when the supreme court sides with the vast majority of justices accross the ideological spectrum accross the country and upholds the constitution of the United States, somewhat protecting lgbt people and same sex couples from the real bullies, you and your ilk.
The legal victory of fairness which will come in line with the natural victory the existence of lgbt people and same sex couples throughout history has proven will be a permament victory for the good progress of society. More fairness, more people enjoying their rights as first class citizens and participating in society as full members, more children into loving homes with two caring parents (and with the legal protection of those families as well after the decision is issues) meaning more productive members of society raised by couples who have gone through hardships to become parents, showing their commitment and love to children and their rearing (thus the extensive data that shows that sometimes the children of same sex couples fare even better in many aspects of their lives – they come into families ready to have them, prepared and controlled, not as an “accident” to some teen girl, not ready to have a child – judge Posner’s, of the 7th circuit, opinion on that aspect is revealing on the blatant unconstituonality of the marriage equality bans : ““Heterosexuals get drunk and pregnant, producing unwanted children; their reward is to be allowed to marry. Homosexual couples do not produce unwanted children; their reward is to be denied the right to marry. Go figure.”)
Time is indeed the measure. As it happened with segregation, you, the ideological children of those who believed in it, in some years society will be wondering what was the big deal about. Your grandchildren will be ashamed to admit that their ancerstors were such vicious homophobes,same as the descendants of racist activists who try to hide the history of their familiy nowdays.
And some day in the future the organizations who have caused so much pain and have prosecuted gay people and families led by same sex couples so hard may apologize after all. History has certain patterns followed in terms of human rights and they will be followed here as well.
Our side fights for fairness and human rights. And this side always wins. What loses is the unscientific, 99 % of the times religiously motivated, prosecution of anyone different, either a person or a different (but equally important and valued) form of family.
Your bullying efforts of fear mongering, vicious anti-lgbt propaganda and silencing of lgbt people,families led by same sex couples and their children no longer work I am afraid.
Natural law did not dictate segregation, prejudice did (apparently, that needed to be stated?).
Science (nature) does not support gay parenting as a preferred option (over biological) to raise children, and nothing you say, or threaten, will change that scientifically verifiable fact.
Your documented very negative generalized opinions (totally unsupported by facts) about straight people and couples is appalling- shall we call you a bigot? Should we apply gay community statistics as broadly?
What vicious anti-gay fear-mongering and propaganda have I undertaken? Be specific.
Please, do enlighten the rest of us ‘dark-agers’- where are these naturally-evolved cultures/societies/communities/populations (human or animal) where homosexual unions produce progeny and raise them according to the universal ‘fitness rule’?
Many people can give consent for a marriage license- what is your recommended ‘ceiling’ or cap on how many individuals, and their relatedness, can marry, and then raise their own ‘fabricated’ or others children?
And, if the politics one day redefines ‘consent’ to permit humans to marry minors or non-humans, is that also consistent with your interpretation of US Constitutional rights?
Of note- this same commenter thought it unwise for an American (s/he presumed much) to have an opinion about Fascism or Communism, yet, apparently, non-Americans are welcome to interpret, and exploit, the US Constitution.
Not too much of a double standard at play in the gay lobby’s arguments.
Funny thing – None of the countries who have adopted marriage equality thus far has ever considered your polygamy slippery slopes. All of the countries who have polygamy (based on muslim and christians grounds) criminalize homosexuality (also based on those grounds). Interesting isn’t it ? Meh I know facts do not bother you.
Polygamy as applied to our world is a deeply misogynistic thing that works only in countries where women have less rights. A very interesting fact don’t you agree ?
Other than that if you can come up with the right legal framework that includes both gender equality and polygamy (since everyone is equal how will divorce and so many other rights will be distributed, how tax breaks will work etc), go for it and ask for it, I don’t really care. Marriage equality has nothing to do with that though. There are extensive studies about the parenting effects of marriage equality, none about polygamy (actual none positive, there are many conducted amongst the mormon polygamous communities in Utah that report large amounts of abuse) plus marriage equality does not change any law related to the legal rights of marriage (tax breaks, end-of-life decisions (e.g. in a polygamous marriage one partner is for end of life the other against – what happens ? marriage equality does not cause that), alimonies, divorce etc etc).
But as I said built your legal framework, create a scientific consensus proving your point and go for it : polygamy, incest, whatever is your personal preference.
Don’t ask to be tied on a culturally, scientifically, historically and legally different vehicle though like marriage equality for same sex couples, make your own fight.
Your nonsense about consent do not even support a worthy answer, as fringe and lunatic as you are, which is hardly surprising. Putting child rape on the same level as loving same sex couples has been a usual manifestation of your side’s highly disturbed minds 🙂
Again you know nothing about communism dear you have never lived it or had a party supporting it. But ignorance is a well known trace of your side.
I did not interpret the US consitution. Major american judges did from accross the ideological spectrum and in over 60 pro equality opinions they have come to the same conclusion about the constituonality of those bans.
Your argument is with some of the top legal scholars of the US, not me. Do bother reading some of their great opinions and if you do not agree take your issue with them.
But hey I am sure a random homophobe who loves conspiracy theories on a far right forum who compares child rape to the consenting relationships of adults knows better than dozens of both conservative and liberal justices…right ?
Your radicalized leftist lobby decided to redefine the ancient institution and practice of marriage- just let the rest of know where and how that redefinition ends, and why it should end with your revisions. Why would you discriminate against other minorities- based upon what, or who’s morality, or science? If two men or two women are suitable as parents, why not five, or 20?
How do you know where I live, or if I have ever lived under Communism- you presume much- very much like your lobby’s interpretation of science…and political trends. Your lobby’s tactics to achieve your ends are authoritarian- that fact is indisputable. Own it, with all those nasty ideological labels that go along with it.
Many judges have interpreted the US Constitution over these past centuries, many of them were, and still are wrong. Again- for the denser among you- legal determinations, especially those that came at the barrel of a politically-loaded gun,do not a moral, or sustainable society make. Don’t hang your hat on that ever-changing prospect too long.
There are no Christian grounds for polygamy- in any country. If it is practiced, it is as a result of local culture or some heretical deviation from Christianity. And, lets not forget your beloved pagan fascists and atheist Communists treatment of homosexuals- not much love at all- as I recall.
Again- please provide examples of thriving homosexual human and non-human cultures or societies- anywhere in the world.
Asktehbigot, why do you allow homosexualist diatribe and propaganda (like the above post from guitaristbl) on your site? Please get rid of these foul, despicable activists – they aim to ‘occupy’ every space on the web which they possibly can in order to deny people who disagree with the homosexualist agenda their own spaces on the web. It is a strategy, to associate every site like yours with keywords such as ‘homophobia’. It’s the technique we see in the market place, where a small band of noisy protesters use foul language, loud megaphones and provocative images to make their point. Although disgusted, most people do not want to confront them and they walk on, quickly. They use similar psychological techniques in their online activism, seeking to change online spaces into places that their opponents will find difficult to visit. This is easily seen in the hateful diatribe they direct at your contributors and supporters. Do not be misled by honorable ideals – they seek to destroy your following. You will get no gain from allowing them a ‘voice’ on your site, nor will you do the right thing by thinking that you allow an ‘alternative’ perspective to be voiced. They are here to disrupt, destroy and harass – not to converse. You have a moral obligation to your supporters, I am pretty sure that they do not want to read postings like the one above here, so full of bile, and which is so obviously designed to insult and harass them! Please do the right thing.
And the bigoted fringe paranoia reaches its peak today. It is well known that the wishes of the fascist theocrats is to silence scientific facts in favour of a vicious propaganda. The extremist owning the blog may as well delete my comments dear bigot. That won’t change the tide of history going towards the right direction.
Yeah, the Fascists and your Communist comrades thought the tide of history was on their side, too. Mans natural desire for, and right to freedom fixed that man-made debacle, too.
It was easy revealing this radical activists true colors. All the talking points, distorted stats- right there at his/her fingertips. A true believer!
Apparently, there is ‘science’ out there somewhere that concludes that homosexuals can reproduce, naturally, and therefore, are better fit to rear offspring than homosexuals. The rest of us must have missed that tsunami of knowledge.
Fear not, nature will right this listing ship in her own good time.
Again with communism..Dear you don’t even know what that word means, drop it really it makes you sound even more of a lunatic than you already do.
I am sorry that peer-reviewed large scale studies on same sex parenting do not fit your ideas. But it is what it is. I remember the catholic church torturing galileo to stop claiming that the sun was the center of the universe, calling him out for his “lies” and “false studies” etc..All out of a need to deny the truth. Same thing here with the radical right christian jihad.
Nature has it right since the beginning of time when it created gay people and when even in primitive communities and the zoo kingdom gay couples took care of abandonded babies or babies whose parents have died or had to go on long trips in order to fight or find resources etc 🙂
What nature will expel from its system is unnatural things such as man-made beliefs in supernatural deities with supernatural powers who write books of rules even and codify what’s “moral” and what’s not.
That will eclipse as people become more and more educated and learn to think in a deterministic way.
Thank you for making my point-again. You introduced Putin and other authoritarian ideologies into the dialogue, funny you should reject those philosophies when they’re pointed back at you.
What does the Catholic Church (the usual target of the left) have do with my position? Nothing. Next.
There is no data, anywhere, to even suggest, never mind conclude, that same sex parenting is superior to opposite sex parenting, or their societies.
There is no data, anywhere, to suggest, never mind conclude, that animals, in the zoo (where abhorrent behavior due to confinement is well-documented) or in the wild, practice preferential homosexuality- never mind prioritize same sex parenting.
Go away- you lie.
If Katy decides to delete comments on her blog, I would hope she would start with yours. Anyone that denigrates gay people by calling them sodomites and dykes shouldn’t be given a forum to espouse their antigay hatred. I may not agree with Katy’s ideology, but I’ve never resorted to petty name calling.
I think Bigot is fair to keep them. I think when the bottom falls out and all their abusive tactics loose traction. What they have said will be a study in the danger of various doctrines. At some point so much of they spew will read just like “work sets you free”
Wow that is powerful hate speech !
I take it that person has not looked at the mounting number of DC kids who say exactly what Robert Lopez says as well as others. The kids are speaking they are hurting and people like this with their blind hate and anger are tragic. I can almost see the self hatred and and internal homophobia of the write manifest in physical form.
This person knows nothing of the law and doesn’t care how kids must suffer for their own selfish desires. The more people like this talk the lower the percentage of people Ok with their ideals drops. This is why like Robert Lopez despite being Bi and having a relationship with my partner of 3 and a half years I cannot in good conscience support same-sex marriage. I was a champion of civil unions it made perfect ethical and legal sense. I was on board for equal standing and rights and then the conversation shifted and changed into something dark and evil and unrecognizable from where it began.
Neither my partner nor I support this misuse and flagrant abuse of the law and constitution and one of us oughta know because their in law school.
The people mastering hate speech calling facts and defense “hate speech”. Ah good old homophobic projection, the well known victim card.
Totally disrespecting the millions of kids who grow up wonderfully with their same sex parents, always presenting as products of bad parenting by same sex parents the children who have suffered from a parental divorce of their heterosexual parents after one of their parents decided they did not want to live a lie anymore and pretend to be heterosexual and happy (a direct result of homophobia).
Selfish people of the far right taking adavtange of kids who have suffered from the divorce of their parents and trying to use them as tools against same sex parenting. Irresponsible and immoral far right agendas before kids. That’s who you are and every day that passes you are exposed to people with common sense.
Lopez (a well paid victim of your politics but still a victim) and the rest of your ilk cannot stop the factual truth nor the constitutional truth. You cannot, YOU WON’T.
No matter how much you claim you know the law better than top judicial minds of the US accross the ideological spectrum who have ruled in favour of marriage equality, you won’t convince anyone, neither the Supreme Court. I won’t even direct you to read the dozens of pro equality opinions, you won’t understand much it is obvious.
I will neither take as granted nor doubt your claims about your sexual orientation or your relationship status, they are not relevant anywa. Some of the biggest homophobes are self loathing lgbt people, after all homophobia is directly linked to repressed feelings as more major studies show.
The conversation has shifted to the essence of equal rights for every person and every family. The dark and evil is what you want : to villify every same sex couple who raises children. And in the process villify and use these children, try hard to convince them that they are problematic or their parents are not good enough.
You have totally failed, you, Lopez, the bigot having this blog and each one of those supporting the anti-family stance of D&G and will file a brief against marriage equality in the Supreme Court.
The court will be on the right side of history for all those couples and their families, that I can assure you.
And while you continue attacking and undermining these families by exploiting children hurt by divorce in the most vulgar, unethical way possible while attacking all the happy, wholesome, balanced children raised by same sex couples since birth, who recognize them as their parents.
One day these unethical attacks may stop as your fringe rhetoric loses more and more ground under the pressure of social reality (seeing all those children grow up and stand up for their parents and their childhood) and scientific reality (with the increase of consensus from more peer-reviewed large scale studies on the issue of same sex parenting).
But till this day comes how many children and families will be attacked ? How many children who are hurt by a divorce will be called to put the blame on the sexual orientation of one of their parents ?
How many more hysterical lies we will have to take ?
Food for thought for those capable of the procedure of course.
U r doing nothing but helping us make our case against Dolce&Gabanna
Exactly Charles. Gabbana even thanked this crowd on his instagram page ! This will be their clientele from now on. Of course in the process they will have lost the vast majority of the people who bought their products.
I hope now NOM, AFA, FRC and the rest of these groups to endorse D&G and make them their poster boys. And I am sure D&G will thank them as well and further dwindle into irrelevance for the people who cared to buy their products in the fashion world.
This is beneficial to the side of equality but unfortunately gives exposure to the blog of this woman and her views (who is complaining she is some kind of victim or that she is silenced – when in all honesty they are the people who think they have the right to speak over everyone else – through their churches, their organizations and even through one of the two big parties in the US).
Even if one child of a same sex couple is hurt due to this whole incident, even if a single legislation in a single country (most likely Italy) protecting LGBT people and their families stalls because of the statements of D&G and the exposure this woman and her ilk and her blog receive, the damage has already been done.
LGBT people and allies must be vocal, must continue the boycott and must be ready to slam facts in the face of everyone coming to the debate about same-sex parenting.
Wow you have some nerve to come around with your delusions and lies. You go make that “chain of love” but it will be a “chain of lies” a chain to deny children their right to a mother and father. How long do you think till the bottom falls out? This is very simple: Adults do not have the right to other peoples children.
The court will proceed with same sex marriage. But it will end with using other peoples children. You seem to imagine that we learned nothing from growing up in the gay community. As far as the victim card goes–LBGT has that down to a fine art–Matthew Shepard, the victim of homophobia turns out to be a meth dealer killed by other meth dealers who were also his past lovers–I think the whole gay bashing narrative falls a bit flat when it turns out the hero/victim. And that was made public by a gay journalist–Gays with integrity who are not deluded are also speaking out.
You can’t discredit and silence everyone it just shows people that monster will to power that drives Go ahead and abuse the children that you claim to love–prove and prove again that we are speaking the truth. Your movement has degenerated is some kind of pathology and D&G are the 1st to come out and say it. More are right behind them–you can’t bully and threaten and shame and silence everyone. You have no righty to anyone else’s children–your are simply too abusive and cruel. You have no civil right to take children prisoner and to deny them their need for a mother and a father. Yes you must be vocal –shout those those lies even louder–In gay land “love” means “give me” and “I demand” and “children have no rights” and “no you better lie for us” That love is toxic to children–and so is anyone who claims it. You are the damaging children–own it. And quit the sniveling you did not have to grow up there you sound like a self righteous whinny crack pot.
Here comes the first bigot. You don’t have a right on the children of same sex couples either. Children raised beautifully by parents who went through a lot to be able to provide a loving home to these children. Indeed it is very simple : The overwhelming majority of scientific research is on our side, heck even our everyday contact with all those thriving children of same sex couples is evident enough.
The only problem children of same sex couples face ? You. And people like you. People who constantly tell them that they and their parents are “lesser than”.
You got a pair of self loathers (who tried to have a child through surrogacy back in 2006 btw – and good for them back then) to support your debunked cause. Guess what ? You will still lose this battle against all those families.
Matthew Shepard was is and will be the ugly image you see when you see yourself in the mirror – the victim of a homophobic attack that one book that provides no actual facts is trying to somehow doubt.
The trial record, the ones that matters not some non factual book, speaks for itself though. The people who commited the crime are in jail and the facts were showcased during that time.
Of course you are so desperate in your pitiful effort to show every kind of animus against LGBT people that Matthew’s blood is not good enough and you try to put him down even after his death through a debunked book. You try to bury it while asking for more. That’s your ultimate target. More blood of lgbt people like Matthew.
You so conviniently play the victim card. It’s the new tactic of the radical right. Accusing LGBT people of everything that you are doing to them that they are doing it to you.
Sensible LGBT people with integrity do speak out. Sir Elton John as a concerned and proud father defended his family from this vile attack. I also read the letter of a gay dad to them and it was moving yet with a raw honesty. The public outcry is getting bigger and bigger from people who come from all different backgrounds. Your support for this self loathing duo is only going to help the side of equality so thanks for that 🙂
Their attack on families led by same sex couples, supported by your fringe ilk, is backlashing already.
Go ahead as well and continue attacking and abusing (because you abuse them) the children of same sex couples because you have some psychological issues yourself you choose to project on other people’s children. These kids won’t have any. They speak out in support of their parents, join their weddings in the states where marriage equality comes, in tears of joy, speak out against vile laws tha target them (them including themselves and their parents) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFcnZWdZRK0). And they won’t stop because you want to use them as some political tool to enhance your attack against LGBT people.
Your movement is fading away, the more the children of same sex couples grow nowadays and the more it is proven that your lies and abuse against them proves itself more and more as unsubstantiated villification as part of a vile anti-lgbt agenda going on for centuries.. D&G, the shameful voice of ignorance you are hooked now from, will be remembered by the harshest judge (history) in a shameful and dark way for joining, out of ignorance and pandering to extreme right wing homophobic instincts of the catholic mafia in Italy, the wrong side of history from future generations.
A vast majority of people are coming out against them and more will come as hate groups like the ones people signing this letter are associated with endorse them.
The silence has indeed broken, the children of same sex couples speak out and they shout : “Live our parents alone !”. They are old enough now, those hundreds of thousands of children raised by same sex couples to stand on their ground and finally fight for the common sense (and science) that tells each one of us that the plumbing down there does not judge a good parent.
The abusive and cruel here who thinks he has rights on the children of same-sex couples is you. And we will be standing between them and your vile, blood thirsty instincts who crave for the blood of more lgbt people and for more children to convince that they are “broken”.
Yes we will be louder : Louder for those children who were given the gift of life through IVF because their same sex parents gave it to them. Those children that found a loving home when their “perfect” heterosexual parents left them to an orphanage and a same-sex couple gave them two parents and a home.
And your vile lies, who treat children as products (because you are the ones treating them as products not their loving same sex parents – products of your vile anti-gay propaganda) in a cynical way are already exposed and will be exposed more in the future as I mentioned.
The time of anti-lgbt tyrrants, their psychological issues and their vile attacks on those children comes to an end. The clock is ticking.
Seek psychological help to deal with your issues, stop projecting your problems on perfectly healthy families who have done nothing to you but LOVE and RAISE BEAUTIFULLY, COMPTENENT, WHOLESOME, HAPPY children.
What a lot of homosexualist hogwash. What’s a ‘lgbt’, anyway – some sort of an alien? I though that there were only humans in society. How is buying a child a ‘loving’ act? Are you familiar with the term ‘breeder’, as employed by your sodomite and dyke extremist heroes? When, in your wildest dreams, did you imagine that most normal people (what you label as ‘straight’) would acquiesce to the idea that we should become your ‘breeders’?
I hope that you do not have any children honestly. If one of them is gay the abuse it would receive would be more than enough for child services to come in and save it.
And hopefully give it to a loving gay couples who would instill some humanistic values to them.
Priceless, arrogant rage driven man demands other peoples children be given to him as if he has the right to own other people–Okay I get it you have no self awareness. I’ll explain it taking other peoples children, that is slavery and human trafficking. Not at all related to parenting or family. Life is not a role playing game and you have no rights to other peoples lives to demand the play along. Most people have a gauge understanding of this. Adults have zero right to other peoples children or other peoples bodies. Maybe in Nazi Germany you could have made that claim right but not in America
Let me make something very clear. I do not hold drug dealers in high esteeme Personally I would not have made such a person a hero for a cause but I am quirky like that. Yeah homophobia his lover and drug partner had a big one on for homophobia–do you keep a straight face (no pun intended) when you type out such absurdities. People know it was a drug deal gone wrong, you can drop the pretend. Unless,you want to pretend he was some hero–fine. But there is no homophobia, just greed and drugs–oh how banal, and how trivial, common and sad. But I get it, that sense of profound loss when that pity victim card is not there to play. Yes, touching death by homophobia it plays so much better and brings in so much more money than the real version. Should I have not brought up the whole Matthew Shepard tweaked out on meth and killed by his dealing/sex partner? I am not a fan of dealers–as a parent I find them low lives and a danger to society. Does that make me a bigot? So be it.
Elton John is the father of nothing. He is a blow hard with bad hair plugs. He bought humans–that is not parenthood. It is creepy. I am the child of a same sex couple. And the only abuse I ever suffered was at the hand of LBGT–we are from different worlds. You will raise nothing of your own. Maybe a synthetic, which is just sad and selfish and the whole little tale of saving children sounds like you are a drink away from drunk dialing your night away. Bla bla bal blood, What next, “good bye cruel world and it is all your fault” Buy a fainting couch you will enjoy it.
The rage is all on your side I am afraid. Your proganda fades away day after day, every day that marriage equality exists, every day that the children of same sex couples grow up and get tired of your attacks on their families. And you, like pigs who know they are about to get “slaughtered” (in a metaphorical sense – in case you try to play the victim card again) get more and more violent and full of rage, losing even the last superficial morality you had in attacking LGBT people and the families they lead.
Indeed adults have zero rights on other people’s children and other people’s bodies. That’s why you have zero rights on the children of same sex couples, who have come to their care and parental love either through adoption on IVF.
You know what’s human trafficking ? What the people taking advantage of people like the one owning this blog do. Children of divorced parents, after one of them got tired of leaving a lie about their sexual orientation in a heterosexual marriage, who have been convinced by the far right agenda that the problem is not the divorce with a parent they have recognized as such till birth (thus the breaking of a parental bond) but the sexual orientation of the parent and their next spouse who happnes to be of the same sex. Misplaced anger trying to deny rights to all those children who have known and recognized till birth as parents their same sex parents. And here you come trying to completely break these parental bonds, leaving children of same sex couples with the same angst the sad writer of this blog has and leaving thousands of children in foster care who are in dire need for a loving, two parent home.
That’s how far your animus has gone towards lgbt people. And as you say and I repeat, you have no rights on the children of same sex couples. None. At all.
Of course in your universe homophobia does not exist. In trying to justify your actions and thoughts to yourself you have to sugarcoat them. Such hatred, even for the most fascist, brainwashed person, is unbearable. You have to create a bubble to live, one in which you have to sugarcoat things and lie to yourself, playing the social justice warrior against immorality.
By attacking Matthew with your lies you only further de legitimize your rhetoric. By trying to sugarcoat the truth of one of the most vile homophobic crimes in the history of the US by using the unsubstantiated lies of a book you further show your desperation. Should I start asking for facts and evidence for your claims against Matthew and his homophobic murderer ? Probably you wouldn’t have any, or anymore at least than the author of the book that gave you your “arguments” who relies on very credible sources (not) such as anonymous calls and tips. Wow, we are talking about the pinnacle of forensics and proof here !
I do not want to put you further in a difficult position by asking you facts the author of this smear book could not provide. I will just point you to the trial records which I am sure you can find if you are interested in the truth (I am sure you are not). Of course I do not expect you to be interested in the truth, so continue your stories about “drug deals” and “boyfriends” and trying to convince us that homophobia does not exist (the official statistics are very clear on the large numbers of homophobic crime still occuring through the us – encouraged by people with your rhetoric of course). The rest of the society will continue remembering Matthew and honour him as the victim of one of the most brutal homophobic attacks, an incident that works as a mirror for the society your ilk represents – a society with the ugly face of vicious homophobia.
Elton John is a father, a loving, caring father who stood up for his family and his children.
If your parents abused you I am sorry, but that has nothing to do with sexual orientation nor with the millions of children of same sex couples who grow up as happy (if not more according to latest studies) as the children of opposite sex couples.
Deal with your abuse issues with a proper therapist, stop attacking hundreds of thousands of families in the US you know nothing about.
Again your fringe side attacks children born through IVF as “synthetic”. You are vulgar and clearly have your issues to solve. Again not a problem of families led by same sex couples.
A real parent will always be the one raising a child, showing selflessness into doing it (because taking the brave opinion to offer a loving home to a child contains huge amounts of selflessness – these couples give up on their more carefree lives up to this point and take up the huge responsibility of bringing up a child to make it a good person and citizen – your issue is that the vast majority suceeds in that obviously).
The selfish here is you who attacks millions of loving families based on supposed personal experiences.
But this is a battle you have lost. And you did not lose it because I say so, or gay people in general say so. You have lost it because all these children you attack and call “synthetic” and try to bring down their parents said so, are still saying so and will be saying so as more of them grow of age to stand up for them 🙂
My condolences for your situation. Seek help and trust me you will see therapeutic results.
IMHO – I totally get you, totally! I have written in the press several times as an advocate for children in support of the rights of children and against adults who want to exploit women and their wombs, turn children into commodities, use them as accessories and remove their mother from their life. You are right, all children have rights and they are not being protected. No baby should be removed from it’s mother. It’s hard for people who had a mother to realise how difficult it is to not have her. Maybe they could just give that some thought. Please keep on campaigning and don’t be beat, because the government must listen to people like you. The problem is if anybody says they don’t agree with commercial surrogacy, gay parents and the like, they are automatically labelled homophobic and it is so far from the truth, it is just standing up for the rights of children, it doesn’t mean you’re anti gay. I don’t care about anybody’s sexuality, I just believe that children should not be bought and they should never be removed from the mother who gave birth to hem unless they are in danger. Keep up the good work.
All children have the right to two loving parents. Your debunked nonsense against loving same sex parents have lost their merit a long time ago.
Children are treated as commodities and products to further your hate agenda from people like you. Trying so hard to convince even them they are lesser than or problematic. Thankfully these beautiful children prove you wrong every day and stand up for their parents against your vile attacks 🙂
A good parent is not judged by the plumbing in the genital area but on other qualities. Your approach apart from a deeply ingrained homophobia shows a disturbing amount of sexism against women who are “supposed” to act a certain way when they are mothers. Fathers are also “supposed” to act a certain way to fit your stereotypes of family.
Family comes in many beautiful, diverse forms, none less worthy than the other. Same sex parenting has strong support behind it from the scientific community, and that’s something your ilk cannot take away with your vile rhetoric.
The government will listen to scientifc facts and reality : The reality of the thousands of thriving children of same sex couples who, even under difficult circumstances of having to deal with vile people like you and without the legal protections of marriage, were able to provide the best for their children and create wholesome, happy citizens.
Again you are homophobic : You ignore the vast amount of data supporting the great homes same sex parents and want to take their children away from the without asking these children first. Do bother watching the videos I posted below. These “poor abused children” you stand up for stand up against you and your obsessions. They stand up for their parents, they cry with joy to their marriages as marriage equality comes to more and more states.
You are becoming more amd more fringe as years pass by and these children are the living proof of your propaganda.
The ones not caring about the rights of children are you. The great, balanced children of all those couples you attack. You do not give a damn about them in order to further your anti-lgbt agenda.
Through IVF same sex couples give the gift of life to children that may never had it if their parents did not decided to be parents. That;s the truth, no matter in what a cynical way you try to twist it.
Through adoption same sex couples give a loving home and two loving parents to children abandoned by your “perfect” heterosexual couples.
You won’t be able to stop that anytime soon no matter how much you attack these children and their parents 🙂
Thanks–they call everyone anti-gay. Nobody cares what adults do. People do and should care about what children have a right to–a mother and a father.
Wait so your spouting hate filled remarks and you get upset at words like “sodimite” and “dyke”?
You do know that Elton Jon the one who started this was found 2 days latter with a DG bag running into a building trying to hide that fact right ?
I should applaud your hateful and mean spirited behaviors because it exposes how corrupt and vile something as simple as civil unions for same-sex couples has turned into a platform for bigots and hateful fascist to spew animus at normal people gay and straight who don’t subscribe to their orthodoxy.
The best future for people like you is what is happening in Oklahoma after which with less than 700,000 same sex marriages or less than 97% of the entire number of homosexual people you and your movement will die when the state gets out of marriage entirely.
Your Faux-equality is brand is so last year!
And more of the victim card by the people spreading hate and propaganda against lgbt people and same sex couples with children. More venom.
Elton came clear and said that the bag carried his lunch and nothing more. On the other hand the boycott has already put some pressure on D&G who are giving interview after interview tellings us how much they “love gay adoption” all of a sudden and trying to make all of us who protested how they offended millions of families and their children. It seems that losing the business of all those who made them who they after they offended them did not work out in their favour did they ? Of course to your side who calls for boycotts of starbucks for supporting marriage equality, target for doing the same etc, people taking a principled stance and saying they won’t buy the products of people who have launched an attack against families is “hate”. Oh the double standards of the right. Got to love them.
We are already applauding your exposure actually. The exposure of all the vile anti-lgbt rhetoric against same sex couples and especially their children. Your attack on their civil rights such as marriage equality.
Gay people asking for equal rights, such as marriage and protections for their families and children are normal people. What you are is another story, but don’t try to convince anyone that you consist any kind of “normality” among the LGBT community (if you belong at it at all – which as I said I neither doubt nor I take for granted as after all the biggest homophobia comes from inside the community and it is internalized).
The animus your fascist movement spits cannot be beaten, even if normal lgbt people who stand up for their rights started to treat you as you treat them my dear. We would have to stoop very low on many levels, both of civility and intellectual, to get to you and the way you treat those who stand proudly in the forefront of equality, attacked both by the religious right you pander to and the tiny minority of self loathers. That’s tough to do , match such hate and propaganda and denial of the reality and facts.
The bigoted legislature of Oklahoma (I am glad you show your true colours by supporting them) cannot and won’t get out of the marriage business as the first to protest will be heterosexual people who will lose their rights ! That one will come to bite you on the back won’t it ? Oklahoma will be as it is usually shown the way to the constitution by the courts if it tries to again limit the rights of same sex couples 🙂 Sucks doesn’t it ?
You know what’s so last year ? Your sheer hatred for all those same sex couples who got married, especially the ones in Oklahoma given your post. That’s actually not even last year, it is so dated I can’t even put it somewhere chronologically.
Seeing you fuming over marriage equality is great actually. Because you know what you cant stand ? The fact that the sky did not fall as you wanted since marriage equality became a reality in all those states, that the only thing that happened was that so many families you hate so much and go after them with a vicious thirst for their blood were finally able to be protected legally under the law, spouses protecting each other and parents protecting legally their children,who have been raising for decades accross the US.
That you cannot stand and you become more and more paranoid, more and more fringe. Any last moral inhibitions you may have had are going down : the target is know the children of same sex couples. They will be targeted till they bow to your agenda, till they admit that they are somehow problematic, they agree to attack their parents to fit your needs. It won’t happen. As many children who have been a product of divorce you present, much more who have been raised either through adoption at an early stage of life or through IVF and have known since the beginning of their lives as parents, the parents you are currently attacking to defend these parents.
Reblogged this on The Scarlet Elf.
Zach Walls speaking about his family before the Iowa legislature (I am sure voices like his are constantly silenced in this blog of the extreme right) :
A gay dad’s open letter to D&G :
These things should be posted in this blog. This blog, made up by heavily damaged people who want to blame all the difficulties of their childhood on the sexual orientation of their parents (not even – the owner of the blog is the product of a divorced household with problematic people involved (nothing to do with their sexual orientation, not even adopted or conceived through IVF by a same sex couple) and as an extent project all their issues on the vast majority of families led by same sex couples who are raising happy, whole, loved children in a stable environment, should feature opinions as the ones I provided above.
I doubt they will open the eyes of the people who sign the letter above and will sign the hateful brief against equality to the supreme court, they are too deep into their own psychological issues to hear anyone without the appropriate proffesional help. But anyone else who reads them and sees them will win something hopefully.
Let’s stand with Elton Jonh, his husband David and their beautiful sons, along with every other family led by a same sex couple. Let’s stand agains the vile hatred of people like Lopez and Faust (fitting name given Goethe’s poem of the same name and the person it describes – someone who sold his soul to the devil) and with all those children who had enough of having their parents attacked and been told that they are problematic or “lesser than”.
Also this channel should be posted on this forum :
This is such a loving couple, a true example to be followed of parenting who has dedicated their lives to their two children, one of them with special needs.
Better show to the person (people) running this extreme right wing blog who they are attacking, put a face on their vile lies and finally hold them responsible of their rhetoric.
No. Your propaganda should be deleted, instead. That clip is such an old and tired one, and it does not address the topic, which is the idea that children should be bought and sold.
Yes, yes we know dear Putin lovers. Truth hurts. Reality hurts. Facts hurt. We know. And these children know it as well. You have hunted them and their parents viciously over the years anyway.
Again I express my hope that if you have any children, especially of one of them is gay, that social services will come in immediately and protect them.
When people like you raise children we talk about real child abuse.
Your typical distortion of others words is lost on no one: disagreement with your opinion does not render one a bigot, or homophobe (whatever that is). How like the ideologues to threaten the opposition with a state action (we may assume that you and your 2.3% cohorts would tattle to social services to confiscate the oppositions children, then?) in order to silence opposing voices? So, its not enough to take an old woman’s business and home, or force others out of their professions/jobs- you also feel entitled to our children?
How very Fascist, and Communist (two sides of the same spent coin) of you.
Yes yes we know “I think gay people are abnormal evil beings with an agenda who abuse children and will destroy society but hey I know a couple of them and I have not killed them yet so I am not a homophobe, how dare you call me that ?!”. Usual bigoted distortions from the usual crowd. Nothing new.
I did not threaten you with any state action (as you and your ilk do consistently – 13 states have not even repealed their defunct “sodomy” laws 12 years after the supreme court struck them down even).
I am just saying that a child would be much better raised by a same sex couple than with people like you who would teach them all those irrational hatred against a community of people. Same I wouldn’t want a child be raised with racist ideas for example. Moreover I am concerned as you understand about the well being of such a child if they were gay after all.
It’s not a coincidence that 40 % of homeless youth are LGBT youth. It’s because parents like you exist out there who kick them out of their homes unless they agree to go through the mental (and sometimes physical) torture “reparative therapy” is (thankfully more and more states have started to ban that practice).
I am not the one silencing you. The dozens of laws targeting lgbt people and their families in so many legislatures and the existence of way too many hate crimes in our society still prove that you are not silenced at all : Your agenda still spreads in the less educated areas of the world even (not only the US) such as Uganda or Nigeria or where authoritarian regimes do not have any inhibition about curtailing freedom of speech in order to find scapegoats such as Russia.
Nobody takes any “old woman’s business”. Since you probably refer in the cases where businesses open to public have discriminated against people on the basis of their sexual orientation when the state law (hopefully soon the federal law as well) protects that class of people from discrimination, then you commit the biggest logical fallacy dear.
Every state in this country has laws protecting people from discrimination on the basis of religion, race, gender, national origin, marital status or veteran status. Only 21 states have laws protecting LGBT people from discrimination in public accomodations, same as the above categories. So only 21 states treat their citizens EQUALLY.
In the rest, a gay businessman cannot legally turn away a christian because he does not want to serve them. But a christian can legally turn away a gay man simply because he does not like him and his sexual orientation.
That, according to your far right agenda, is the “equality” under the law you want,
I, on the other hand want to ensure that everyone is treated equally meaning that if I cannot discriminate against you on the basis of religion you cannot discriminate against me on the basis of sexual orientation. And that’s how a civilized society is supposed to work. I don’t have to play “heads-tails” everytime I enter a shop on whether I will be served, as you shouldn’t either no matter how fringe your opinions are one the civil rights of citizens you do not like. The problem becomes even more evident in small towns where only one business offers a certain service and that business legally denies that service to a person of a certain sexual orientation. Should that person drive to another city to simply receive that service ? According to your logic maybe but be careful :One day your logic may turn against you when the sole business that offers a service in your town refuses to serve you because you are a christian or you are black or whatever. And then you will seek the protection of the law against animus.
Who is the real fascist is evident I think by the example I just analyzed above when it comes to equality under anti-discrimination laws.
P.S. You would be right to point out that a gay businessman who denies service to a christian may not receive a lawsuit after all but let the market speak and close him down. In a country where christians (of every denomination mind you – many supporting marriage equality) still consist a majority, that is a likely scenario. And it only highlights why anti-discrimination laws are much more important for minorities who in many places (if not everywhere) are politically powerless, unlike christians.
And please stop using the word communism. You don’t even know what that is in the US, you just spout it out in the most ignorant way. You have two main parties, one center right (democrats) and one far right (republicans) ,you have not even tasted what a center left policy is let alone communism.
P.S. Indeed fascism and communism can be quite similar in some aspects. Citizens take a taste of that wherever and whenever they vote for the GOP. Which poses some great similarities to the Islamic State btw minus the killings (which they and you would gladly do to all those who do not fit your vision of society).
We are those children moron–Our parents are gay and we say No to same sex marriage–us, yep the children of LBGT–wake up and smell the coffee.
And the children I posted on the same thread talking in defense of their parents are also these children, who fight passionately for their parents and their equal treatment.
Yes the children of same sex couples wake up and speak up against your villifying rhetoric, trying to elevate your personal experiences to universal truths.
That’s something all those children who grow up happy, wholesome and balanced stand up against.
In every single article I read about some supposed child of a same sex couple (who then proves to be a child of divorced parents with one parent having a same sex relationship after that – and in all occasions in situations that happened at least 20-30 years ago at ages still very hard for lgbt people and their families) blaming marriage equality and the same sex parenting on all the bad that’s happened to them (usually nothing bad is listed – they all describe a childhood millions of children would envy), children of same sex couples come below to comment and say “what you say does not speak about me and my family!” like they should be able to do something.
I do not know how you’ve grown up. But the fact that you many not have grown up under good circumstances has nothing to do with the sexual orientation of your parents and of course does not apply to the millions (and their representative sample as I posted it on this same thread) of children who are perfectly happy with their childhood and their same sex parents.
These children are the ones most passionate about marriage equality.
Thankfully the time that no child in the US will have to live as a 2nd class citizen because the state does not want to recognize both its parents legally comes to an end in late june with the decision of the Supreme Court.
Again seek help to face your issues from appropriate professional and stop taking the anger of your childhood out on so many families who have done nothing to you.
yeah that was years ago wanna bet money he has since tried to find out who his dad was ?
What about the kids and how their feel many who are still living with their Same sex parents and are in their teens can you dismiss them ?
@kids who have gay moms on this site, just like me!
Thanks, thank you thank you so so sooo much for sharing your stories. I’m the girl with the uncle who’s actually my dad. I just posted my story. I honestly thought I was the only girl of two moms in the universe that kinda sorta wanted a dad… It’s been painful but i haven’t told anyone like not even my bestie.
I don’t tell anyone about this cos I don’t want anyone thinking that gay people are bad parents or that my moms are bad parents. People don’t understand… They just don’t understand how complicated things are at home. My moms are awesome, and it’s not their fault they’re gay. They can’t help it. I mean why would anyone ‘choose’ that? It’s stupid for people to think that people ‘choose’ to be gay, and gay is a choice. It’s totally not.
I feel bad for them sometimes. The anti-gay bigots don’t want them to be happy and get married, and my grandparents reject them and think their marriage is wrong, and they’re going to hell (but I guess it doesn’t matter now because they’re divorced and they have new partners), It’s so sooo unfair. If I have a gay child, I would love them so so much, and I would protect them from bullies and bigots. All my moms want is to have a baby, and have a biological family like everyone else. So I always thought what a terrible bitch (yes bitch) I am to destroy their happiness too, because I wished I just had a dad in my life and not a donor fake uncle. You have no idea how lonely and guilty I feel about this, but maybe you do? I feel like a bad child, especially when I look on TV and I see the good kids of gay parents say they have the perfect family and they don’t need a mom or dad, but you’re all like ‘but I want a dad…sometimes?’
Thank GOD for this site. It’s so nice to have a a safe place to talk about these heavy things…
Date submitted: February 15, 2015
Continue trying to put down all those children standing up for their same sex parents. Continue going after them, hunting them down till they say what you want them to say and show your true colours yet again 🙂
And the story you posted is what exactly ? A counter argument to what I said ? A dismissal of the scientific consensus so many peer reviewed sudies on same sex parenting have formed ?
Yes there are no perfect families with same sex parents as there are no perfect families with opposite sex parents. What you post just enhances the movement for full equality for all those families you attack as all this anonymous story confirms is that same sex parents are not bad, she herself, the girl on an anonymous online story, describe them as awesome parents and how angry she is that others try to deny them their rights !
What this girl also realizes is that not every child feels like she does (as the stories I have poste show) so it’s not the fault of her mothers for the way she feels of course !
Your story is just that a story – what the stories I posted prove is that same sex parents raise children wonderfully. As the large scale study conducted by the university of Melbourne recently shows children of same sex parents may do even better sometimes than those of opposite sex couples simply because they are not just an unfortunate accident that happened but a well thought out decision of people ready to have a child and who will be largely scrutinized before they are able to be parents.
Again stop attacking all those children who stand up for their same sex parents. Stop thinking that anonymous stories or stories of children who were hurt from a divorce work as credible evidence for your ilk to keep attacking same sex parents and their children.
And stop making assumptions for children like the ones in the videos I posted and project YOUR needs on them.
They are perfectly happy children who love their parents and would not want ANY other parents than the ones they have.
ACCEPT that reality and stop using perfectly happy children as tools for your agenda. The more you do the more these children speak up. I saw many of them now with the wave of marriage equality crying out of joy at their parents’ weddings, supporting them and thanking them for all they have done for them and for being their parent. Stop trying to dismiss those children and their families !
To Everyone opposed to adoption by gay parents or non-natural pregnancies;
1. Should children dumped by their heterosexual parents (the very ones that were blessed to be able to conceive but by whatever reason chose to give them up) be left to grow up in orphanages or in foster care and be denied the rights to be raised in a loving environment (even if the price to achieve that is to be adopted by gay couple)? And before you give any answers, let me remind you of the thousands of children in that situation right now around the world.
2. Should heterosexual couples, that for whatever reason, aren’t able to conceive naturally be denied the right to fulfil their parenting dream? And again, let me remind you that in many cases, the husband is the infertile – should his wife be denied to the most basic woman instinct of given birth?
I wish I could sincerely understand why this subject is even up for discussion..
The answer is so simple. Take the children from 1 and allow 2 to adopt them. Children have a right to a mother and a father.
Parenthood is not a right–get that through your head, repeat that over and over. Children have the right to a mother and father. Adults have ZERO rights to other peoples children–see how easy that is? And Gay men are not infertile women please try to be honest. You are talking about slavery not parenthood.
No honesty to be expected – I am sure you are well aware of it. Better to lobby the owner of this blog to purge these homosexualists. They are here to antagonize her supporters.
I am homosexual and support Dolce&Gabbana, Support Tradicitional Family because i had father and mother .. Peace please! <3, Not all gay think the same about the family!!
Thank you. I am the also the child of same sex parents and I can say children need a mother and a father and these people have no right to demand children sacrifice for them.
I will say this; D&G do have quite the backbone to go out in public with this opinion, which is obviously very controversial.
IMHO; I also have to say I disagree with D&G, you and a lot of others here. I come from a “traditional” family, with a mother and father. They have loved me and supported me since the day I was born, no question about that. But to say that all children “need” to have a mother and father, I think is highly wrong. What about single parents – who stay single all through their children’s childhood and well into adulthood? Do you tell off those parents as well, because they also do miss having a mother or having a father?
I have several dear friends who have been brought up in gay homes, they have been loved, appreciated and supported since the day they became a part of their families. Never have they complained about having same gender parents nor have they missed having “one mother and one father”. Of course, they have been curious about the “traditional family”, how it’s like to have a dad or how it’s like to have a mom – but nevertheless, they have always felt fullfilled with the parents they have and did not miss having the traditional “mom and dad parents”.
I do understand that a lot of children brought up with gay parents miss having a mother figure/father figure when they see “everyone else have it”. But you should never assume everybody feels that way – because it’s a very individual thing. That is why I do not think gay couples should be denied the possibility to have a child.
And for your information, a lot of couples who adopt, gay AND straight, they do let their children keep in touch with their biological parents. Not everyone who are children of gay parents is “denied the right to have a mother/father” as you put it.
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I usually don’t comment on blogs, but I honestly can’t read this and then sit back and do nothing.
I’m not gay and don’t have gay parents. I come from a loving religious family and my parents (a man and a woman) have been married for 32 years. I went to Catholic school. I’ve been married for 4 years and don’t have children yet.
I have gay friends and straight friends. I have gay family members and straight family members. I love them all the same and hope they have the opportunity to fulfill all their dreams: career-wise, travel-wise, home-wise, and family-wise.
If any of these people I love (or any other people I don’t know) are capable of and willing to provide a loving, caring environment to raise a family, then I fully support them. There are people who feel a calling to become a minister, a teacher, a soldier, an activist, a writer, or a PARENT… regardless of their gender, religion, race or sexual orientation; and I believe we should be given the opportunity to follow our callings in life.
Families are made up of many different ways. And the parents (or parent) in those families are still Mom(s) or Dad(s) and their children will always be their son(s) or daughter(s). There is no need to make distinctions between biological, adopted, in-vitro or whatever other means of having a child there are. The love of a parent towards their child is infinite and vice-versa. At least this is the way it should be.
There are many marriages or couples (heterosexual and homosexual) that end up separated or divorced, and others that are just not fit to be parents. There are parents that abuse or mistreat their children. There are dysfunctional households. There are vices and addictions that destroy families. This can happen to anybody. And not everyone that fits into a family ‘group’ (i.e. homosexual marriages, single parents, heterosexual couples, divorcees, step-parents, etc. –just to name a few) should have to suffer or pay for the choices others have made.
At the same time, there are many families that are functional, loving, respectful and happy. They can be formed in many different ways. With a mom and a dad. A dad and dad. A husband and a wife. A mom. A dad and a stepmom. A wife and a wife. These are all considered families.
Who is to say that just because a couple is formed by a man and a woman either of them isn’t going to abuse, neglect or mistreat their children (or each other)? And who is to say the same about a man and man, or woman and a woman? They (we) are all human and as such have flaws.
And who can say that a family formed by two parents of the same sex, two parents of different sexes or one parent, can’t provide an adequate and stable home-life for children to grow up in? Sexual orientation, race, career, gender or religion do not determine someone’s ability to be a ‘fit parent’. Again, WE ARE ALL HUMAN. We all have needs, qualities, flaws, love to give, dreams and hopes.
I believe all children have the right to respect, the fulfillment of basic needs and to loving parent(s).
If there is a heterosexual person or couple that feels a calling to become parents but for whatever reason cannot conceive through sex, they find alternative means to fulfill that calling. They are usually not judged as harshly for seeking fertility treatment, in-vitro, insemination, surrogate or adoption. If there is a homosexual person or couple that have that same calling, and they were not able to conceive through sex, shouldn’t they be able to seek the same alternative means?
Couples and single parents alike (regardless of their sexual preference) can all raise homosexual children, heterosexual children, assassins, A-plus students, doctors, abusers, fashion designers, store clerks, photographers, smokers, painters, robbers, actors, future-parents… It’s more about the love, the values, respect, kindness, communication, guidance, honesty and qualities that these parents have than who they kiss at night.
I love and thank my parents for raising me the way they did. I’m sure they’re proud of the values they have instilled in me and my siblings and of the way we treat others with respect, acceptance and support with which we treat others.
Would I be the same person I am today if I was raised by two moms? We’ll never know. But I do know that I’ll raise my future-children (however method they ‘arrive’ by) to be kind to others, to accept and respect our differences even if they don’t agree with them, to love deeply, to make the best choices for themselves, and to strive to be the best they can be.
tell that to the children then….
The truth is you would be cruel and hypocritical coming from a intact family to say you support FORCING children to be raised in a broken one. There is a difference between making the best of a bad situation and making a bad situation by design. Your comparing things that are not equal.
1.) If you life ambition only affects you as a individual largely you are free to do so and you should be able without regard to whom you choose to sleep with in your life choices.
2.) When you involve another person you lose that right.
3.) When you involves another person who cannot consent and who is victim to your every whim and desire. You have a moral and legal obligation to put that person and their needs above your own. THis duty arises even before birth or conception. This is both a legal and a moral duty. You cannot nor should ever morally desire to impoverish malign injury or create undue hardship on a child simply because you want to or because you believe it is your “life’s calling” to do so. Many many many people go to jail for thinking and saying things like that.
4.) failure will result in loss of the child and potential jail time.
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Arp, your words are respected. It is very difficult for anyone to understand unless they have experienced it but living your entire life never knowing the ‘other part ‘ of your genetics is traumatic. IMHO knows because of personal experience ( and so do I). So that should be respected. It’s a feeling of never feeling whole, no matter how much you are loved. It’s nothing to do with sexuality. It’s about knowing who you are totally, who is the other part of your make up and why they aren’t sharing in your life. It’s a mental trauma. A primal wound. The fact that the genetic second parent isn’t in your life is the issue, they are part of your make up and part of who you are. It’s even more difficult if the child has been removed from their birth mother through surrogacy for example. A gay person is exactly the same as a heterosexual person ( except in their choice of partner) so there’s no doubt they will make equally good parents. It’s just that in order for them to become parents it means that the child must be denied one of his/her genetic parents so the loss and suffering in that respect is the child’s. I hope that explains a little.
Unfortunately guitaristbl is a bigot and demonstrates no respect so will not care to try to understand. I’m utterly disgusted at the rant and calling people vile, that’s disgraceful and shameful. Debate should always be respectful of other peoples views. If you don’t understand or agree with people’s views you should try to convert people’s views by educated debate not refer to them as vile etc….
“A gay person is exactly the same as a heterosexual person ( except in their choice of partner) so there’s no doubt they will make equally good parents. It’s just that in order for them to become parents it means that the child must be denied one of his/her genetic parents so the loss and suffering in that respect is the child’s.”
Of course, I hope you realize that you also described every single opposite-sex couple (or single person) that has ever adopted a child. Those children were denied BOTH of his/her genetic parents.
However, adoption should not be about denying children the right to grow up with their biological parents. It should only be an option where they can’t do so through circumstances which are not created on purpose. If a child is orphaned, for example – then of course adoption is an option. There are always more straight couples who are willing to adopt than children that need to be adopted, so why would we think that the child automatically loses the right to at least be cared for and nurtured by a female and a male as the adoptees? Of course, we know why – because of the war being waged on what is termed as ‘heteronormativity’. That is, a war on the natural family.
“There are always more straight couples who are willing to adopt than children that need to be adopted…”
If that were true there wouldn’t be hundreds-of-thousands of children that need to adopted would there?
yeah because its not hard or anything….. I mean I could see if there were a rigorous vetting process several home inspections tests and a third party that can deny your subjective reasons…. Oh no wait all those are true never mind then.
There are not hundreds of thousands–there are 152,000 children available for adoption this year. Quit giving false information. What happens when all the falsehood are dispelled. There are 257,000 same sex couple not a single one can reproduce themselves. So here they come like predators, looking for impoverished women to use as reproductive slaves–yeah homophobia is going to take on a whole new meaning. Women should be scared–very.
Thank you, Emilie for your respectful answer and explanation. You’re right, I was conceived though sex by a man and a woman, lived most of my life with them and have them as part of my life. I don’t know what it would have been like to grow up without either of them and would probably have many questions and doubts about my origin and my genetics.
I don’t know anything about your beliefs or moral views, and think by now you know more about mine. I ask this only in trying to understand a little more about other points of view regarding this issue. Are you for or against gay marriage? Gay adoption? Adoption in general? Alternative ways of conception?
If a child is an orphan is it then acceptable for a gay couple to adopt them since they aren’t denying the child their biological parents? And the same for heterosexual couples?
I guess I understand where you’re coming from and I think you make a valid point. I’m not saying that alternative methods of child conception are good or bad, I’m just saying it’s a fair point and one to consider.
Maybe this issue or their (D&G) comment was misinterpreted and became a gay-rights issue, when it really is an issue of child conception, regardless of sexuality.
And I am utterly disgusted that people like you attack so many families led by same sex couples and believe that whatever their personal experiences were they have a right to draw conclusions for every child rasied by a same sex couple.
The people educating you everyday are all those children of same sex couples who know the truth : a true parent is the one who in a spirit of pure selfishnless raises you, is there for you as you grow up to share the joys and the sad moments, who is there to comfort you and support you.
A same sex couple offers a loving home and two loving parents to a child who could have none (through adoption) or could not have been born even (through IVF or surrogacy – if the same sex couple did not decide to have that child it would not have come to this world). The fact that you had any personal experience that may not have been positive does not negate the millions of children who feel no “loss” or “suffering” because they had two parents of the same sex.
If you want to speak for yourself do so. But realize that you speak for yourself and your childhood and bringing up, not the millions of other children with same sex parents who are tired of having their families attacked and their parents not recognized as legal parents as they are not married.
What’s vile and disgusting is the viciousness of the people of this blog and their arrogance of disrespecting the children that do not share your views. Children represented in the videos I posted, who stand up for their parents.
Show some respect to them and stop trying to project your “suffering” or whatever you believe your parents’ sexual orientation did to you on others.
Have some respect for these children. And seek some psychological help (it’s no shame many people do it through the course of their life) to see what your real issues are.
I never had a dad and I don’t feel any “loss” or “suffering”, because I never missed a parental bond I did not have from the beginning. I am perfectly happy with my single parent family and would not change it.
So you do not speak for me either.
The ones not understanding is you. So before you put your name on any anti equality brief going to the supreme court against marriage equality think about all those children who do not agree with you and want their same sex parents and themselves to be treated as the equal family they are.
Have some basic respect for these people who hold firm to the belief I expressed above : A parent is the one who raises the child first and foremost.
IMHO has had to sacrifice a genetic parent so that his/her gay parents could live out their dream of a child in the family. That sacrifice is huge, it is a forever aching pain that never goes away no matter how much love is provided by others. It is IMHO who has had to live with the agony of that profound loss. It’s real and it’s painful. It doesn’t make him/her vile or homophobic. I advocate that children shouldn’t be made to suffer that pain so that adults can live their dream. I am not homophobic, absolutely not, I don’t give two hoots about anybody’s sexuality. It’s children’s rights and needs and protection that I care about.
david0296 – adopting a child is entirely different – those children either have no parents or parents who cannot look after them usually because they pose a risk to the child. An adopted child has not been specifically created with the intention of denying the child it’s parent/parents. To specifically create a child with the full intention of denying the child a mother or father is wrong and that’s very different from adoption. So your comment is absolutely ridiculous.
I don’t really see the difference between a sperm donor, surrogacy, adoption, etc. In every case the child is going to be missing one or more parent. When an opposite-sex couple gives their child up for adoption they have, for all intents and purposes, “created a child with the full intention of denying the child” their biological mother and father. You don’t think those children feel the same loss as any of those other situations? Now who’s being ridiculous.
Actually no the law has been very clear on this. Adopted kids have a right to know their biological parents and in some states they have a right to contact that parent when they reach a certain age. (varies from state to state). At best you be denying a child immediate access to a mother or father but not a permanent one. So there remains a vast gap.
Additionally we have to look at intent are kids of adoption intentionally created with a purpose to deny anything ? No The better answer is negligence with negates the possibility of intent. (you can’t have both)
So you assertion fails on the element of intent. It also fails to take into account that it is only a temporary denial rather than a permanent one. There is also additional case law about parents who gave kids up for adoption and due to tragedy ended up with their kids returned after to them after the adoptive parents died.
This is because where possible the law prefers to keep biological links in families intact.
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I am 28 years old and my parents are gay. I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I could say I m totally happy with my life, my education and with the love I have received from my parents. I have many many friends with mom and dad that were very unhappy during their childhood. Six unhappy guys raised in gay homes dont represent the majority. #boycottdolcegabanna
If you are so happy why are you buzzing around the internet defending your maturity and your gay parents and how well you were raised–and being sure to mention all your unhappy friends. Did you come up with that all by yourself?
Most people at your age have their own life, are married have their own kids. At 28–they are not defending their wonderful childhood and great parents. The lady doth protest too much. Just saying.
And here you are trying to silence and put down a person who had the opposite experience from you and breaks your glass cage. Fascism at its best.
Who is intolerant now ? Why Lola does not have a right to say that she is perfectly happy and healthy with her parents ?
Who are you to take that right away from her ?
Err, no you’re not. Looks like the standard HRC format. Hopefully, the owner of this blog will see the keyword you have just inserted at the end of your post. However, let me counter it with my own.
Does a website of thousands ???????
I support freedom of speech, and everyone’s right to their own opinion! We cannot all agree on every single matter, nor should we feel obligated to for fear of retaliation.!
I agree with Dolce & Gabbana. Your words spoke volumes! In order for our society to succeed and thrive we need to keep the family ” traditional”. Thank you for speaking up.
This is America, and we are entitled to free speech. Everyone has the right to say whatever they please and you don’t have to agree. D&G have the right to feel whatever they wish and the right to say it…. Why is it that if your opinion doesn’t line up with the gay lifestyle you are homophobic, why can’t it be just a valid point. D&G shouldn’t be pressured, condemned or crucified for having an opinion they believe. Our freedom of speech is fading and it’s only free when you agree with the mainstream, the celebrities, and the powers that be.
And the people who believe that there is nothing wrong with same sex parenting as the scientific consensu also suggests have a right to express themselves freely as well.
Your freedom of speech exists. That’s why homophobic attacks continue to be an issue, why in a majority of states someone can be legally fired or denied service on the basis of their sexual orientation, that’s why same sex couples had to go to court to protect their constitutional rights.
You can’t limit our right to speak up for those families attacked (although you would want to do so). Where is our freedom of speech ? You also can’t force me to buy something from D&G again by saying that the boycott is “intolerant” ? Do I force you to buy stuff from the hundreds of businesses supporting civil rights for LGBT people ? Obviously not.
Also what is the “gay lifestyle” ? The lifestyles of gay people are as many as the gay people that exist. Homosexuality is a variation of human sexuality, not a “lifestyle”.
D&G were contested with facts from peer-reviewed large scale studies and were contested by same sex couples raising children wonderfully (and in many cases on forums by these children themselves). If providing facts and living examples of why your attack was biased and without basis consists an infringment of the freedom of speech of D&G then we may as well return to the medieval times when the catholic church tortured Galileo till he revoked his proven with observations discovery that the sun is the center of our solar system.
I guess these are times some people do miss…
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I’ll bet if we try REAL hard, we can find six people raised by opposite sex couples who had shitty childhoods!
However, Dolce and Gabbana obviously didn’t. So there you go, little princess – your fantasy has had a bit of a setback.
I’ll bet no matter how hard you try every single one of those people will have had a mom and dad……….
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Arp, in answer to your questions…. I really don’t have a strong view either way in regard to gay marriage, although I don’t see why heterosexuals should have the monopoly on marriage and it is a fact that gay couples are now raising children and i do believe the legality of marriage can provide a secure status and environment for children to grow up therefore I don’t oppose it and I can’t see that it hurts anyone.
I also believe that if a child is in need of adoption because their parents aren’t able to look after them safely and thus the child is at risk, then a gay couple may make wonderful parents for that child, in that case it would depend on the wider family and friends network, ie…whether there would be other close family members of the opposite sex who might balance the caregiving so that the child benefits from closeness and care from both male and female influence.
In summary, I believe adoption is the best solution for some children where there is no alternative because it gives them security and a family, whilst a mom and dad might be a more balanced and traditional solution and therefore preferred I am certainly not wholly against gay couples adopting.
What does seriously concern me is that couples ( and singles for that matter) are conceiving children with the specific intention of denying them a mother or father so they can have what they want. In this case it is the child that makes the sacrifice and suffers the loss. It seems gay rights are overturning children’s rights and needs and if anybody dares to raise the subject of children’s rights and needs they are labelled homophobic!
D&G are gay, so they can’t possibly be homophobic. All they have done is advocated children’s rights and needs – albeit using poor terminology I think. Chemical and synthetic is no way to describe any child.
imagine if you had been severed from your mother at birth and imagine never sharing a moment with her, never experiencing that natural primal bond between mother and child and then learning that you were the subject of a commercial contract, that money was paid for this to happen. It’s surrogacy that’s wrong I think.
“What does seriously concern me is that couples ( and singles for that matter) are conceiving children with the specific intention of denying them a mother or father so they can have what they want. ”
They can have what they want ? The selfless act of offering to bring to this world a child and raise it is now a selfish act ? No my dear, it is not. Raising a child is a tough job that bears a huge responsibility. Anyone willing to take it should be applauded and encouraged.
Also everyone willing to give the gift of life to a child that would not have been born otherwise is someone who should be applauded. Gay people have been blamed all this time for not advancing the human kind by not having children. now that they do have them and raise them they are again to blame !
As judge Berzon thoughtfully analyzed in her concurrence in the opinion that stroke down the marriage bans, the argument of “children need a mother and a father” lies profoundly on sexism and essentially demeans women.
It has its roots in an era where women were “less” than men. Her contribution to parenting was defined by her gender because she was supposed to have a “distinct” role. The housewife who will teach her daughters to be good housewives themselves, bow their head to the man’s-husband’s-father’s will and learn to get what they want in a discreet way that does not threaten the superior status of the man in a patriarchic family model. On the other hand the man-father-husbans had its own distinct role : The master of the family who works to bring the living and the food on the table, who orders and the females of the family obey, who teaches his sons to be like him, patriarachal authoritarian figures dwelving into the cultural misogynism this family model perpetuates.
What “ruined” all that “perfect” balance ? Those pesky women asking for equal rights. In today’s society women and men are equal, whether some people like that or not. They work outside home along with their husbands or it may even be that the husband stays home and the wife works. They have an equal say on every matter, including family matters and they both take gender-neutrual responsibilities when it comes to parenting – they both teach them the values they want them to follow, they both may teach them to offer to the housework no matter if they are girls or boys, they teach them (ideally) to treat each other equally.
Yes whether you like it or not in today’s society what a parent has to offer to their child does not depend on the gender of the parent (as it did because of the aforementioned clearly seperated, on a vertical scale that establishes superiority, gender roles) but on the individual qualities of the person. Opposite sex parents share the responsiblity of parenting as much as same sex couples do.
Some people may not like that. I certainly do. But if you do not, your problem lies with women’s emancipation first and not gay rights.
In a society where genders are equal and parental responsibilites are gender-neutrual (as they should be in my opinion) as a result of that, same sex couples can be as good parents as opposite sex couples.
So the one not respecting children’s rights here is you. The rights of all those children raised by a same sex couple to have a loving home (through adoption) or the right to receive the gift of life they receive because their same sex parents gave it to them through taking up the responsibility of child rearing.
And yes it is homophobic. It attacks the parental abilities of same sex couples and sugarcoats it as “children’s rights” where children have a right to two loving parents regardless of gender as they both can offer different qualities to the child’s rearing in a society of gender equality. The children’s rights are not only upheld but celebrated when same sex couples join opposite sex couples in raising the next generation of citizens, as everyone responsible and willing enough now provides the next generation of people. So it is not only homophobic but incredibly selfish agains those children raised by same sex couples.
D&G being gay does not mean they cannot be homophobic. Actually the most homophobic people are gay themselves. D&G are just self loathing and ignorant on a topic they know nothing about. And btw they have tried in the past to have a child through syrrogacy. Could the fact that this failed for whatever reason be a reason they are so bitter now against all those succesful and happy families led by same sex couples ? A very strong possibility.
Children are creating parental bonds with the people they recognize as parents, not with syrrogates. Syrrogates are wonderful women who help children come to this world and to their parents.
Your cynical approach, trying to make this act of responsibility and kindness from both sides, a contract about money says more about you rather than the syrrogate who agrees to carry the child of a same sex couples or the couple themselves who show selflessness and responsibility in taking up the big task of giving life to a child and raising a member of the next generation.
Thankfully the heavily misguided opinions here won’t stop same sex couples from offering a home to so many children as they already do. Adoptions by same sex couples have increased in the UK and more than 70,000 children in the US have same sex parents and are raised beautifully 🙂
These couples are so brave. Amidst so much hate and attacks on their families and societal discrimination, they take on this responsibility to contribute to the raising of the next generation and do so in such a competent way.
I am so thankful the majority supports them in that task.
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The power of hatred is immense!! I cannot believe the poison I have read from critics of D&B since the comments they made. These individual humans live in a blessedly free society and I support them 100 % in speaking their thoughts. I believe that they condemned no one, but they are now being roasted alive for exercising free speech. The real scary monster in all of this–the real bigots and bullies–are those who now seek their ruin, who yield this hideous, mammoth power to “shame” them publically, and thus to silence them, to financially ruin them. Such stuff is the action of fascists, terrorists, and I have lost any respect I ever held for the celebrities who are shunning and pointing fingers at D&B. My respect goes to D&B for speaking their truth in a world that will beat you down if you don’t march to their dull, heavy-handed drumbeat. Forza, bravi, D&B!
D&G must be naturalists- they happened to notice that nature, conducted via natural biological processes, dictates parentage- and thus, family.
It is never funny to the leftist/radicals when those secular mandates they force upon the rest of society come back to bite them. Science, such as evolutionary theory, is used to attempt to beat down religiously-based morality – until it shuts down their own biological arguments in support of gay ‘parenting’. If you were meant to have children- you’d be able to reproduce them- naturally. The best parents to/for offspring are the two that made the incredibly energy-expending biological investment in the offspring, everything else is secondary, and lesser. Millions of years of evolution attest to that fact- it is indisputable. Nature provides no examples of preferential same-sex bonding for the purpose of reproduction and parenting. And, it never will.
Elton simply ran out of things to buy and stuff in that Colliers Mansion of his and decided it would be just too cool to add kids to his collection of ‘things’. Now, he, and his fascist cohorts, are self-proclaimed experts on children’s needs, and what constitutes a family? How long will it be before the gay ‘marriage’ between one and one becomes a marriage between/among many? How long before relatives ‘marry’? How about trans/inter species marriages? Why not?
No doubt these fascist radicals will call the opposition to the ongoing redefinition of marriage, and parents, and family, bigoted – while ignoring the crimes they are committing against innocent children, which emanate from their intentional social reengineering, that which is designed to destroy the naturally-evolved institution of real marriage between one man and one woman.
Want to see real hypocrisy- ask these same fascists about their positions on abortion.
Natural Law cannot, will not be ignored for long.
One Man+One Woman = Progeny (LIFE), no matter how many different ways Frankenstein deigns to animate his monster, it will not change.
Thank you, thank you,thank you !!! Big thumbs up to D&G for speaking their mind.
Nobody is being “roasted alive”. People express their opinion as they did. We retain that right. You can’t force me and anyone else to continue buying their products, that would be fascism. You are free to continue buying them if you support their attack on same sex couples and their children. They condemned millions of families actually and become the last people on a long list of bigots who target these families.
The fascists are people who have double standards actually. Defending the freedom of D&G to attack so many families but not the freedom of the other side to defend themselves and express our views, or the freedom of parents like Elton John to stand up for their families.
Continue supporting them. We, the majority, will continue standing by all those families who are viciously attacked everyday but continue, in many countries without any legal protections, to raise wonderful children, these two called “synthetic” 🙂
We stand with same sex parents and their children. Someone has to stand for them and their rights as well.
I am all for Dolce and Gabbana!!!!!! Finally!!!!!!!! They stand up for the Christian Bible/God’s Bible!
Our country is suffering and all over the world! If we don’t do God’s will, GOD will punish us! And he is
punishing us now! Look around people! Look at our country today and see the evil over the good!
Our country has more crime and hate today then it did 200 yrs. ago! We need to stand up for FAMILY!
A husband and wife, man and woman!!!!!!!!!!!! to raise our children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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It’s a shame. I might have been inclined to agree with some of what D&G said but their tone, their disdain for people’s lives and their lack of respect; it’s disgusting. Shame on D&G.
Didn’t notice any tone problem, disdain for peoples lives, or disrespect by D&G, please, enlighten us?
My nieces and nephew aren’t synthetic. They deserve respect.
My interpretation of their (D&G) statement was that the process was synthetic- which it is, but, never is the child synthetic. Perhaps translation from Italian to English created a syntax problem. I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I also give most gay couples the benefit of the doubt regarding their intentions- they mean well, but, good intentions are not enough in this case-there is too much at stake.
There should be no manipulation of fertilization by man- period. Nature perfected the process, along evolutionary lines, in accord with the environment- which also includes our current civilization/culture. After all preferable options have been exhausted, only then should same-sex couples be considered for adoption of children. And, no new lives should be created to provide ‘designer’ human beings for gay or straight couples- there are enough needy children in the world, already, to go around.
Remove the emotion from your arguments- this is just logical.
Do you know what your neices and nephews think about themselves the way they were made or how it feels to not miss a parent and do you REALLY think they would tell you ?
Maybe later in life if you ask at the right time but not as children ……. its was a surprise to me too.
Let’s make sure we don’t vaccinate our children, fight cancer, send water purifying systems to drought-ridden Africa (after all, if they were meant to have clean water, they’d have it!), get a pacemaker or an artificial leg, or even take NyQuil when we have a cold. Those, also, would be interfering with the so-called “natural” order of life. Throw out everything you own that’s plastic, it was made in a lab.
“That’s ridiculous!” you’ll argue, and of course, you’ll be correct. Because there is no one single answer that adequately protects and addresses all circumstances the world over, and the issues you’re debating are so much more complex than they are being given credit for. We play God all the time, for a million different reasons. To bring it back to reproductive terms: ever wear a condom? You just interfered with the natural, biological process. Shall we outlaw that practice because it’s not “natural?”
A thousand times over, I would rather see a child in a loving home – gay, straight, single, adoptive, married – than in the many unstable, unloving or abusive homes for the sole purpose of remaining united with birth parents. The truth is that even the best homes and upbringings leave kids with issues to overcome. We ALL have them to deal with. We live in a fallen, imperfect world. Is there an intrinsic longing for our birth parents? I believe there is. Should that bring an end to the practice of adoption, surrogacy or gay parenting? Of course not.
The gift of humans is that whatever you give us, we will find a way to pervert it, destroy it, or make it less than perfect. Show me a type of family, and I will show you someone who was screwed up by being part of that system. It doesn’t mean that we should throw out the whole system, it means that we should work hard to use the resources available to us to create the best opportunities for those in our care. Leave a legacy of kindness and understanding , not judgment and discord.
I totally agree. What is worth discussing is the fact that, while we want children to have stable families (in whatever form) a household without a mother and a father is different from other forms. And different in ways that are not always positive.
Full disclosure: I am an atheist, liberal, east-coaster who voted for Obama and who was raised by two women in the 1970s and I believe there are pitfalls that same sex couples face when raising children, particularly children of the opposite gender. This is my own experience. There is such a rush by marriage equality advocates to paper over what are real differences in the experiences of children.
Why is disagreement with your opinion ‘judgment’ or ‘discord’? Why don’t others get to weigh in on things that affect our society and culture, or our children?
Why isn’t it ‘kind’ and ‘understanding’ to put the welfare of children (and society) first, and not put the desires of self-oriented individuals and/or adults first?
You fiddle with nature and the natural order of things for millions of years without any sense of possible fallout. That fallout will affect the experimental ‘kids’ (and possibly their kids), as well as society at-large, not you or your partners.
The best opportunities for ‘those in our care’ is with their biological family (including relatives), first. They have the biological investment.
Like I said, everything and anything else is secondary, and less.
We’ll have to agree to disagree- and, you wont be able to tar and feather me or run me out on a rail.
I’ll maintain my position- nature correctly determines parentage, and family- not one’s selfish will, or politics.
I think most concerning is the rhetoric behind the diatribe you’ve written:
“Elton simply ran out of things to buy and stuff in that Colliers Mansion of his and decided it would be just too cool to add kids to his collection of ‘things’. Now, he, and his fascist cohorts, are self-proclaimed experts on children’s needs, and what constitutes a family? How long will it be before the gay ‘marriage’ between one and one becomes a marriage between/among many? How long before relatives ‘marry’? How about trans/inter species marriages? Why not?”
Disagree. Maintain your position. No one is asking you not to. But when someone calls out your rhetoric as judgmental and divisive, don’t hide behind the idea that you’re respectfully standing up for those who cannot stand up for themselves. I saw above a rather lengthy list of psychological and educational studies that show the “experts on children’s needs and what constitutes a family” to be generally on the side of gay parenting – were those all simply the byproducts of Elton John’s “fascist cohorts?”
Beyond your rhetoric: Of course there is merit to the ideal. Biological parents who look out for the best interests of their progeny above all else? I’d like to think that this is the best case scenario. But not without exception. It is “superior” as you say only if the biological parents intend to act selflessly. Intend to devote themselves to the raising of their children. Refuse to divorce, AND maintain a peaceful and healthy marriage. If the parents are at all educated about the process of raising a child, have the means and the desire to do so. Given that many, MANY straight couples fail to meet these criteria, why would we think that gay parenting, adoption or any other option would be inherently inferior?
Perhaps – just maybe – it is possible to envision a world where black and white thinking doesn’t encompass the entire experience of humanity. Where a gay couple (adoptive parent, whathaveyou) doesn’t only do the job as well as the mother/father duo, but actually churns out children who are better adjusted because their parents loved them, were prepared for them mentally, emotionally and financially, and above all else, wanted them.
The point, it seems to me, is that there are pitfalls in ALL systems and in ALL types of family, as pointed out in the post above. If you’re looking for child-oriented, unselfish individuals, that should discredit a good deal of adults.
Regardless of their biological relationship to a child.
I’m sure there are wonderful homosexual couples who are or would be great parents.But what it comes down to is nature. Humans are created from a man and a woman. This is the traditional way. This should not be altered. We need something sacred in this world. The “family” is definitely one of them.
It was easy to call-out Elton as an example of one (hypocritical) type of selfish individual ‘collector”- not all potential non-biological parents fall into that category- as you know- and as I clearly stated, so don’t try to reframe (or worse, distort) my position. John- a well-documented unstable personality, personalized the debate when he attacked D&G personally instead of constructing a logical argument in support of gay parentage. One good turn deserves another.
Done with him.
Can you answer any of my questions about redefining marriage? How about redefining parent? How about redefining anything? Pick a word and see where this dangerous ideologically-driven game leads you, and society.
The goal of society is to support the best of all options, that which produces the most fit individuals in order to secure a healthy and productive society. It is the natural man-woman parentage, only, that has proven to do just that. Anything else is a flawed fabrication. What you demand is that the prevailing culture change the natural order of the world for purely selfish reasons- because you want gay couples to ‘bear’ and raise children just as do their heterosexual counterparts. What next will the gay fascists demand of nature in order to support their own selfish agenda? If they were truly committed to helping children, they would contribute to charities and other social institutions that work to reduce the number of children at risk.
Gay coupling is notoriously unstable. Gay ‘marriage’ is a social experiment in-progress- it’ll take generations to develop conclusions about its affect on society, presuming it lasts that long. And, only in the light of evidence should society consider the unnatural coupling family as a viable alternative to the natural coupling family regarding the rearing of children. Politics has put the cart before the horse, and has endangered children as a result. When the gay fascists kept asking us how their ‘love’ would adversely affect others- here we see just one outcome of their emotion-driving (unreasoned) agendas.
Black and white matters in our society, after all- doesn’t it? There is right and wrong- isn’t there- you seem to think so? Relativism, especially as driven by radicalized ideology, intentionally blurs the lines between right and wrong.
The creation of and subsequent rearing of children is neither a gray or gay area- nature has spoken. If you don’t like the answer, take it up with ‘her’.
Excellently written, Jae! And since you feel so passionately about nature and not re-defining our society – since the best of it was given at the dawn of time, I trust you’ll apply your well-defined black and white principles in all areas of your life. You hang on to those principles. Don’t let the statistics sway you. Don’t look to the countries where all indicators are telling us peace, tolerance and respect actually create more stable, happier societies. Ignore the research by the most educated minds on the subject you claim to be defending. Selectively forget that we interrupt nature in big and small ways for everything from pleasure to medicine.
Nature is best. Good luck with that.
The inconsistency and hypocrisy of society in choosing what should and shouldn’t be an inalienable right and what we should and shouldn’t interfere with is really quite fascinating.
Yes, Nature is Best.
Man has yet to make any notable positive improvements upon ‘her’.
Your ‘tolerance, peace and respect’ door swings both ways. Practice what you preach.
Man needs to be more tolerant, peaceful and respectful of/toward nature.
Not all plastics are made in a lab
a lot of what you “think” is plastic is not.
Africa had clean water they polluted it which is also not nature so….. you kinda failed to establish a point there
vaccinations are optional many people do not vaccinate their kids you know like Amish people who seems to be healthier than the kids in the mainstream there are theories running around but we let Science have more time to get their story straight.
Oh btw a pacemaker killed my brother …….. have a care when build your straw men you might hurt someone.
I heartily support Dolce&Gabbana’s thoughts , they are very brave indeed, both being gay, to express such opinions probably in great contrast to the gay community. They are very talented artists as well, only wish I could afford the line! Bravo for your candid opinions.
Thank you Dolce and Gabbana for your honesty and courage. If I could afford one of your pieces, I would buy one. Maybe I’ll splurge just to support you!
I have not had or have not had any connection with the gay community, if they want to conduct themselves in this way then so be it. However Children naturally need one parent of each sex. My childhood was scarred badly by the death of my mother when I was a boy of eleven years of age.That was a very sad time having only a male to bring me up, as it turned out I ended up bringing my self up, I was robbed of a balanced childhood by natural causes, for gays to purposefully bring children up with only the one sex is cruel and heartless. The thought of humans doing this to children is abhorrent, and shows what a mixed up bunch they are, and should not be aided by councils or agencies, indeed they should be prosecuted for cruelty, and suffer the harshest punishment possible under law. David
Children not two loving parents regardless of gender. The scientific consensus states clearly that the children of same sex couples are not disadvantaged in any way compared to the children of opposite sex couples.
What is abhorrent and unfair is that you, along with others here, try to equate the loss of one of the parents you knew to the case of children brought up since birth by their same sex parents and recognize them as parents.
You won’t suceed into prosecuting those happy families and take these children away from the people they know as their parents and have established parental bonds with them.
Same sex couples and their children have faced years of prosecution from people like you and D&G and the poor victim of a divorce who is the owner of this blog. They won’t back down from offering loving homes to so many children because you had one irrelevant experience of parental loss through death and want to blame it on them 🙂
So I don’t get it. How does the existence or not of gay marriage affect children, unless what people mean when they say “I oppose gay marriage” is actually “gays shouldn’t be allowed to raise children”? Otherwise, I don’t understand how a child of a same-sex couple is going to be affected one way or another by the word used to describe their “parents'” relationship.
This isn’t an opinion on either side of the argument about gay marriage or gays raising children. I’m just struggling to understand how a person can justify condemnation of gay marriage by virtue of protecting children while simultaneously not stating that gays shouldn’t raise children. Really, I don’t understand it.
I guess for full disclosure I should state that I technically support gay marriage. The truth is, I think it is irrelevant to anybody what word somebody else uses to define their relationship. The “marriage” of somebody else has no impact on my relationship with my loved ones. I would put it on a footing with somebody telling me I couldn’t marry someone of a different race or social class – “F*** you! I’ll marry who I please!”…Children being raised by gays though? That’s a much tougher issue and I am too ignorant to take a firm stance on it.
Have a great weekend!
Marriage is between a man and a woman, not a sodomite and a sodomite or dyke and dyke. Race has nothing to do with it – you’re using a false dichotomy.
How about the words Mom and Dad………..
marriage and parenting are inseparable in the law, because one flows from the other.
Race and sexual preference are not equal or related. The insinuation that they are is racist and bigoted.
To clarify for Peter, of course gay marriage is one thing, whether one agrees or not. However to introduce an innocent into that equation is cruel and unnatural. .
Thanks, mate. Much of the comments here have addressed the issue of gays raising children. What I am really wondering, though, is if we can conclude that a person opposing gay marriage on the basis of the needs of children is ipso facto in opposition to gays raising children, whether they state that or not? Are these children of gays that oppose gay marriage saying “I was raised by gays and other children should not be subjected to that”?
Marriage is not about recognizing the ‘love’ between two individuals. It never was – have a read of the Marriage Act in your own country (Australia, yes?). Please let us know if you find the term anywhere in it. Marriage is about a man and a woman being accorded a recognized right and formal protection, because most permanent bonds between a man and a woman are likely to create a family. It is in fact how complex societies, with systematic legal and political systems came into being. The first state could not be unless the basic unit of society, the family, was first protected, and the rights of the wife and husband established, thus ensuring children had the best chance of surviving and growing to adulthood. The very first decrees of the earliest known kings in what is now the Middle East concerned such rights! There has never been ‘gay marriage’ as a recognized state protected right – ever! Why? Because society never considered to give anyone but the mother and the father the ‘right’ to bring up a child. There never were any ‘gays’, let alone ‘gay marriage’ until homosexualism developed as the vile ideology it is and we encounter even here.
I think the point is that marriage is one thing and same sex relationships are another. This is a distinction not a value or judgment call.
One side says “there is no difference” and the other side says “your crazy right you can literally see obvious difference right in front of you!”
“Nope everyones the same.”
Then having failed to impress upon them the basics of reality they start on the effects stemming from what was obvious in reality to start with.
The other side remains skeptical or hostile.
Just because two things are different and we have to treat them slightly differently doesn’t mean they are bad or one is better than the other. you can grow apples where you grow oranges but you can’t grow oranges everywhere you can grow apples.
You are introducing the innocent children of same sex couples in the equation and use them as tools to prove something.
Thank god they speak out finally and cry “Leave us and our parents alone !”. They had enough of your prosecution and villification apparently.
That means less children will be brought up by these people. then that would be a better outcome for the children. After all it is the children who suffer for these peoples ignorance.
Nope children suffer from the ignorance of people like you. I do hope more same sex couples raise beautifully children in the future. We desperately need that over the abuse they would receive if people with your ideas raised them. Especially if the children themselves were gay.
It is good to see them stand up. I am impressed.
Way to go you two…
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The people who wrote this letter seem to be from loving homes, even if they are not the traditional ones. Maybe if they had to grow up in a household with a mother and father who were constantly fighting and the father beats both his wife and children every day they might think a bit differently. I wish my parents had been the same sex and had raised me in a loving home instead of fearing for my safety and wondering if this beating would be the one that killed me. Maybe take a moment to think of the ‘traditional family’ as you call it and think about all of the poor children that are subjected to horrible childhoods at the hands of a mother and father. Poor parenting comes in all forms, but if you have two parents that will go through the ordeal and expense to have a ‘synthetic’ child as you call it, they do actually appreciate their children much more than two people who while drunk or drugged up conceived a child they did not want and make sure to tell the child they are an unwanted burden everyday of their lives.
Why is it that all supporters of gay marriage and parenting are compelled to compare bad natural marriages and parenting with good unnatural marriages and parenting? Is it the only way you can draw your erroneous conclusions in favor of gay parenting? Why is it always acceptable to pivot to statistical outliers (eg. unfit biological parents) when citing the defects of heterosexual coupling, but, if the opposition uses the same process when analyzing homosexual coupling they are called bigots? Are you sure you can safely go down this road when analyzing statistics on homosexual coupling regarding domestic violence, and other negative behaviors (family unfriendly) attributable to homosexual coupling?
The debate centers around all things being equal. All things being equal, children should be raised by their biological parents- as nature intended, period. Any deviations from that which nature intended should be based upon the good (biological) model, or standard, as closely as possible.
You should be wishing that your biological parents did not practice bad behavior (drugging, drinking, etc.) and especially within their marriage, and family. Their inability to resolve conflicts in an acceptable manner had nothing to do with their sexuality.
Your (statistically) unsupported “bad” heterosexual marriage/parent ‘strawman’ construct is worthy only of a bonfire.
My argument is that a same sex couple who want children have to go through a whole lot more to have a child than a heterosexual couple, so when this child is actually brought into the world they are actually wanted and provided a much more stable household than I was provided and most of the children in my neighbourhood. I would of preferred to have grown up with only one parent rather than two people trying to kill each other.
Good homes are a home where there is love, support and safety, doesn’t matter who are the parents. What annoys me is the whole argument here has no basis, a child should grow up with a mother and father. What if the mother or father had died when that child was young, does the basis of this argument mean that this child should be taken from the remaining parent and put into a two parent household? Because that is what seems to be the issue here, a loving home does not seem to be enough.
Yes my I had a bad upbringing because of my parents bad choices, but you Jae living in your perfect world may not be aware I am one of a majority around the world, I would love to see the statistics of children that are beaten and terrorised in same sex households, so what boo hoo these people felt sad the fact they didn’t have both a mother and father, we’ll get over it, not everyone’s upbringing is perfect but at least you had two loving mothers or fathers to be there for you day in day out.
You’re argument lacks evidence. If anything, there are children of such unions who argue against your position.
This is one poster at AnonymousUs website who has some words for your argument.
“You could have been raped!
Yes, yes I could have. Thank goodness I hadn’t been.
You could’ve been abused!
Yes, yes I could have been. There are many cases where such cryo children are. Did you read about the donor girl who was abandoned by her social father in a divorce, and sexually harassed by her stepfather? Interesting read.
Had you even heard about that case in Australia, where a loving gay couple who “just wanted to be fathers”, paid a surrogate and egg donor to have a child that they used in almost 200 porn videos, and so they could sell him around the world on a gay pedophile network, as a sex slave? They even bragged about how they had been having sex with him from the time he was a toddler. No one even knew it was going on, because the boy was trained what and what not to say to outsiders by his loving fathers, even to the faces of the news casters who had filmed this loving innocent family in the promotion of gay surrogacy.
You know what’s funny? When people undermine how cryo kids feel with rape and abuse, unaware that there are cryo children who have been raped and abused.
You know what’s also funny? When people try to vouch for the cryo kids’ social parents, when they are completely unaware what it’s like to grow up knowing their parents abandoned them for money to strangers, and their human life was a business service, just like buying furniture.
Two wrongs certainly do not make a right. It just makes more emotionally and physiologically damaged children who are not considered, and not respected.
Do you know what it’s like to grow up in a home where you long and crave for the attention of the ‘man who gave you life’ but your lesbian parents’ militant gay politics says that “Children don’t need moms and dads. All they need is love! And anyone who disagrees is anti-gay bigot”?
Do you know what it’s like traded for money, lied to in the face of your mother and social father for their benefit, and then having to bottle up these feelings of mourning for the birthfather who never loved you, and wants nothing to do with you, an entire family who doesn’t know you exist, and dozens of half-siblings you’ll never know?
Of course you don’t.
If you wish you had lesbian moms or a singled mom and a anonymous father, all fine well and good. You can legally divorce and disown your parents and all your family, and try to get adopted by a lesbian couple or a singled mother. But please don’t try to use yourself as an example of how donor offspring should feel, and how grateful we should feel about being the commercialized goods of a business service.
You have NO idea how it feels to be one. You feel like an object, and there is no dehumanizing feeling like that that in the world.
Maybe it’s not by your intention, but you’re coming across as if you’re only thinking of yourself. And if you feel the cryo offspring are thinking the of themselves too, please consider that the people on this site are hiding their identity so it won’t hurt the feelings of their parents. Please consider some of these kids have been rejected/exiled from their families simply for wanting to know their fathers. Please consider that their loving parents separated their donor offspring from their anonymous families and lied to them for the parents’ benefit. And please consider that most cryo offspring do not go publicly about their feelings, all so the infertile or gay or single adults can get everything they want, at the expense of their children.
Lastly you’re entirely mistaken, we CAN do something about the past. We can BETTER the future and make things better for our children in future generations, based on the mistakes we made in the past. One way is to stop making using the “no childhood is perfect”speech to EXCUSE doing things that have an entirely probable chance of ruining the life of your children. Like using a sperm donor, for instance. And hey, you shouldn’t be too upset about that. You said it yourself “genes don’t mean love”. Great! Adopt then, since genes don’t matter.”
Date submitted: August 06, 2014
Before you continue supporting this belief that the children of IVF are ‘wanted’, I would get an impression from themselves.
And that’s how YOU feel Sam, not how the thousands of children of same sex couples or those born through IVF in general feel. This arrogance has to stop. There millions of children born through IVF here who understand that a parent is the person who raises you with selflessness and loves you. Don’t try to dismiss them.
Stop attacking all those happy, wholesone children of same sex couples who are tired of having their families attacked, who are constantly told by people like you that they should feel a certain way.
They do not !
Stop taking advantage of every child claiming to know their feelings to attack their same sex parents. It’s unfair to them and to you.
I will give you one chance to listen to reason and prove yourself as somebody who isn’t a troll. That entry wasn’t mine. I will give you the link and the name to this post.
RE: Maybe the Grass is Greener….
She is a real person. She was Donor-Conceived. When you attack my reply, you are attacking someone that you claim to be defending. Now, what do you say, knowing you are hurting those you who are trying to help?
You have no idea what my world was growing up, or what it is now.
Most traditional families that bring forth children the old fashioned way (according to the laws of nature, and evolutionarily perfected) are more stressed than anyone who pays others to do so- whether in a lab or via surrogacy. Nine months of pregnancy (gestation) and birthing and post-partum are a wee bit harder (riskier, costly) on the biological parents, especially the exhausted female, than hiring others to do so.
You insist on comparing bad heterosexual parenting, which is the minority, with your theorized excellent or superior homosexual parenting. Why not apply those same fabricated statistics you presume for heterosexual parenting to homosexual parenting? What happens to children raised in dysfunctional same sex households? We already have actual stats (not theorized) on homosexual bonding/unions – monogamy and life-long bonding, which nature has determined is the preferred human model for child rearing, is statistically undetectable in that community. So, lets open up a huge can of possible societal ‘whoop-ass’ to accommodate 2.3% of the human population, a subset of which are absolutely unfit for child rearing due to all the same ills that befall the heterosexual population, a subset of that subset which may (TBD) be suitable to rear healthy children. And, we’ll do all of this ‘to be fair’ to accommodate the whims of that miniscule segment of society. But, once we open up that Pandora’s Box full of unknowns, who else will jump out to demand we defy nature to feed their selfishness?
The argument is simple; society need not have it’s ‘arm’ twisted by radical activists to encourage (or prioritize so far as many here are concerned) same sex child rearing simply because a minority of a minority of some societies will it for their own selfish reasons. Nature has already determined who is best fit to bear and raise children.
The only participants in this debate talking about taking anything away from anybody are the radicalized gay activists; they have been taking away from who disagree with their views businesses, homes and jobs – and they also absolutely celebrate the annihilation of these poor peoples reputations- just look around here at ATB for proof of that truth. Now, they want to take the product unique to heterosexual unions- the children.
What else will these radicals do after learning that they can distort our spineless (and imperfect) legal system to support confiscation of our children for their own pleasure- while ignoring the biological needs of those children? If some subset of 2.3% of the overall population can bulldoze it’s way through the will of the majority, why would we not think that the gay community’s own minority that have other stated designs on our children wont bulldoze their way past that 2.3% subset in order to acquire their own selfish hearts desires?
No one has a ‘right’ to oppose the laws of nature; not even SCOTUS.
What a rude wake up call will be for you fringe people when you realize that the majority of people support same sex parenting and adoption.
You are selfish, vicious and full of hate in your crusade against all the happy and wholesome families led by same sex couples. But the more you attack them, the stronger and more close they become actually.
You can continue targeting the children of same sex couples to pursue your vicious anti-lgbt agenda. The law will be there to protect them as well as their parents. Till of course they are old enough to stand up for themselves as they already do and shout “enough is enough !” with the attack on their families.
Good on them for telling it how it is. At the end of the day, natural selection means that same sex couples cannot reproduce – full stop, end of story. Thats not to say they don’t have rights or deserve a long frightful life etc, it just the way it is – you can argue about it until you a blue in the face but you wont change this.
A person who cannot reproduce does not mean that he/she does not make a good parent. No matter how much you try to twist it that’s also a fact that does not change. Same sex couples make great parents. It is what it is and you can argue against it till the earth becomes a square. Won’t change that either.
GREAT IN JESUS
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